Paul: 0:29

Good afternoon and welcome to another episode of MarketPulse Pros and Pioneers. This week, if I'm completely honest, it's a retake. Andrew kindly got together with me a couple of weeks ago my broadband gave up the goose and recorded nothing. Like it, it delete not deleted, but it just didn't finish uploading my side of the video at all. So we're having to re record. So if you see a chagrined face on Andrew at any point today, it's cause he's already answered these questions once. But this is real life, and this is, part of what I wanted to do with the podcast anyway, is to showcase that these things happen. Life is real. Plans don't always go how we expect them to. Thank you very much for coming back and re recording, Andrew.

Andrew: 1:09

Two, as they say.

Paul: 1:10

So Andrew is CEO of UPS Building and Maintenance and also the owner of Adaptation Supplies Limited. Despite battling dyslexia and overcoming some early setbacks, including time spent in prison, Andrew has built a 10 million business that specialises in home adaptations. I'm not going to say that after a Christmas party, am I? For the elderly and disabled. With over 15 years in the industry, UPS has adapted over 6,000 properties across the Northwest, offering a range of services from minor repairs to large scale property extensions. But what I really like about Andrew and the businesses that he works with is, his mission is simple. And when we recorded the last time, it was up behind him on the wall. Changing lives for the better. And I align with that so much. I really love that phrase. Andrew, first up, tell us about how you got started in business. How did you get where you are now? Because there's a lot of people out there who would love to be in your shoes and go on some of the journey that you've been on. Obviously not all of it. But how did you go from, dyslexia through to prison for the first part, and then from prison, what turned you around and got you into business?

Andrew: 2:25

Yeah. Thanks again for having me again, Paul. And it's a pleasure. And like we say, take two, let's go. Hopefully we don't have to do this a third time. Yeah. So I suppose I have to go back to the start of my journey, deeply shaped my, my future, I really struggled in school was always getting into trouble. I had dyslexia and yeah, school wasn't a great place for me. I was always in the, on the naughty step, as they say, or in the headmaster's office and getting in trouble for things. Which unfortunately carried on through my teenage years and ended up with me getting kicked out of most schools that I was in. Parents at the wit's end of trying to work out why or what was wrong with me and always told me that I would end up in a prison cell. And unfortunately I did end up proving them right. When I was 19, I did end up going to prison. And even a step back, my parents gave up on me at 17 and I was homeless at 17. 17 to 19, I was in survival mode got myself into a bit of trouble in those survival years. Not something that I'm proud of, but something I had to do to survive in my eyes. And then, yeah, that ended up in with me in prison. Going to prison was one of those life changing moments for me. You talk about changing lives for the better. Jail changed my life for the better without a shadow a DA shadow of a doubt. I think if you go to place like that, you've got two choices. I don't think there's one in the middle. I think if you go left. You learn from your peers how to carry out more crime and get into the same rut of in and out prison, in and out prison, in and out prison. Or you take the right approach and say this is somewhere I do not want to go back to. And what can I get? And what can I learn? What can I develop myself out of this experience? And mine was definitely the right hand. And the day that I went there, I was like, Man, I have proved everybody I've ended up where everyone said that I was going. There is only me that can change this. And I my, I had to hit rock bottom for me, to change my mindset and get my resilience to better myself. But yeah, hitting rock bottom, going to jail certainly did that for me. And for the first time, I was able to channel my dyslexia into Things that I was able to, it sounds weird. There's been things that you enjoy doing. I was very lucky with. with Jail that the warden noticed I had a joinery qualification, even though I was homeless at 17, I still carried on my NVQ in joinery. So he got me a teaching job to teach the young juveniles in woods in joinery, which I really enjoyed. You get to listen to people's stories, help them, stuff like that. I really enjoyed it. And on good behavior, we went to an open jail, which was like a bootcamp scenario. Where you trained as if you were in the army, up at seven o'clock, shining your boots, making you All those disciplines were amazing for me. It's probably what I needed in my life. And to cut a real long story short on that, the last part of the It was a 16 week program. The first eight weeks you did Duke of Edinburgh's English, maths, training, all kinds of host of stuff, but they got you a job at the end of it. Yeah. If you pass those eight weeks, they then got you a job that you could go Monday to Friday, do your job, and then come back to the prison at the weekend. That set me off on my work journey. Paul, I stayed with that company for nearly nine years before they sold out to an investment company, where I started to really learn my trade. Very fortunate that the person that took me on there really believed in, in me. And I really was thankful for him for giving me a chance. So I gave him everything, if that makes sense. I'd be there at the gate at half past six in the morning to open up with him. And he really put me on that first step journey of towards learning about business. He provided me the platform to go and do my HNC, HND. Again, for someone with dyslexia, it was very hard, but I was so passionate about proving other people wrong that no one was going to stop me. And that really got me on my path, if that makes sense.

Paul: 6:40

What a powerful story. And I think, to be honest, we could probably do a whole podcast on that initial journey into and out of prison. I've, we've discussed before, I've followed the work of Sarah Templeton for the last three or four months where I've been reading a book around Managing ADHD with your kids and how not to have, not to murder your kids who have ADHD. And as, as a parent who has ADHD myself and undiagnosed until I was what, two years ago and still only really self diagnosed. I can see now that I know a lot more about it. I can see a lot more. in other people, in neurodiversity that I can see would be extremely challenging at that young age to not be felt, heard, understood, not to be engaged in a way that, that put you to proper uses. What was that like as a, cause you got diagnosed with dyslexia at 14, right? Yep.

Andrew: 7:30

Yer 14, 15, it was really tough. you know, it's like you said, the, the feeling Of being alone, not being understood. You can't understand why you're in trouble all the time. You can't understand why you can't. Understand what the teacher's trying to teach you. My attention span was terrible. Like literally within half an hour, I'd be swinging on my chair, falling off my chair, just because I couldn't get it. And I desperately wanted to Paul. That was the, I don't think I was necessarily a bad kid. I just was misunderstood completely and I think, the, in my view and I'm sure it's a lot better than it was, but I think the curriculum for people with, that are diagnosed with these things needs to change, be, let people be their creative self or not necessarily a curriculum that's set by a GCSE or whatever is, is the right way forward. When I found something that I was passionate about learning for, I found a way to learn.

Paul: 8:26

Yep.

Andrew: 8:27

But, and you do, if you've got an interest in it and there's a bit of an end goal to it, I feel that you can really. You can find yourself, whereas before you could only concentrate for 15 minutes. Now, give me the information. I'll store it a different way, But I'll store it.

Paul: 8:42

Because you're interested. And I think that's important, right? There's so much emphasis and importance in the UK more than ever, certainly in England, on academic pursuits. That we forget that there are other skill sets out there that are every bit as important, if not more important sometimes. And sometimes that starts with working with your hands for a lot of new, diverse people. It's doing something, physical, doing something. And that's looked down on by a lot of people. And I laugh because I've got friends who are, they're on the tools, if you like to use that phrase, right? They're on the tools. They're electricians, they're scaffolders, they're plumbers. And by God, I wish I earned their wages. Jeez. And these were all kids who at some point struggled with academics because they just didn't gel with what was on the board. It's a fascinating journey. What got you into running your own business? How did you migrate from being, find an interest in joinery to, to get to the point where you had your own business?

Andrew: 10:15

So again, still with that passion of really wanting to prove people wrong, prove myself wrong. I prove others that, I can be successful. I add that real drive and passion to try and I was very lucky with the company that I was on board with that. So they would put me through my HNC, HND. Like I said before I was just about getting into a management position when that company though decided to sell. So that was in about 2006 and they sold out to an investment company. So all the real core core family values that they had dissipated. Connection with the owner disappeared at the click of a finger's and I went back into that sort of scary zone of feeling, oh, Here I am in a world that is now gone super corporate, doesn't understand me, doesn't understand my dyslexia, doesn't, so I took a decision in 2007 that I didn't like the way the new they weren't even owners, it was a corporate bank, so they just got people with titles in to run the business. It wasn't a way that I wanted to go, so I decided to set up on my own. I sold my house moved back in with my parents to give me cashflow and bought a van and an apprentice and just went literally. Went out with a sort of initial purpose of doing a job right first time, give the customer a good experience and hope I'd get some more work. That literally was the next 10 years, grafting during the day, going out, doing quotes at night, invoicing at night, wearing every single hat that you can possibly wear, which I'm so glad I did because although 10 years was a very long journey of only being around about a million quid with Working with my friends rather than employees, being, maybe taking a bit of advantage off both ways. The people that we were working for, Paul, were, abuse isn't the right word, but, you'd be on 90 day payment terms and you'd be trying to get paid, oh, the director's not available to sign your check off, and then you're on 120 day, it was vicious. It was tough. It was hard. And it wasn't until sort of 10 years of being in business where we really decided to focus on one thing, specialize in one thing find out why. Our why came about from in about our ninth year, we started doing subcontracting for a company that was doing wet rooms. We'd never done them before, and I'll never forget the first one we did for an 83 year old lady that had been waiting four years where she'd not been able to have a proper wash in her own bathroom because she couldn't get into the bath. And she literally said at the end, crying, you've changed, you don't realize Andrew how much you've changed my life. And I was working with a mentor at the time and these little things just snapped into place. That is our why. Changing lives for the better. And we try and put that into everything that we do, whether that be a marketing, whether that be with our own staff, not just about our customers, it really has become a complete why throughout the business. And it's great to have that why, because you can really use that as your focal point in your storytelling. Which again, I think to link that in with marketing, I think it's really important that people. Are able to tell a story, not just chuck things out in a one box fix all scenario. It's being able to tell a story, communicate a story. And I've been really lucky. I've got both. I've got my personal journey, which I've learned over the last 10 years is quite powerful. I used to hide that first 10 years of my business, mate, no one knew that I'd been to Or if they did, it was my personal friends. It was, Oh, I can't ever, coming on a podcast now, telling someone that I've been to jail when it's wider to the open would have been 10 years ago, would have been not a chance. Now I realize that it can inspire others. lucky. I think that I've found. A platform where I've got both. I've got the personal journey, which I can use to my strengths, not only in marketing, but being able to attract talent to the business. I think people can connect with the story. They can connect with the personality. And I think us having a very strong why. And being able to showcase that on multiple platforms especially LinkedIn whether that be through, through TMS I can't say that word with my dyslexia, Testimonials Case Studies. It gives me lots of content to play with without having to is fake it the right word? There's nothing that I need to fabricate, I get a lot of content from both.

Paul: 14:40

I think there are, we've talked a few times about how you don't really feel comfortable in the marketing world and your background and expertise isn't marketing. I think there's an irony there that you've got so much of the marketing of your business right. Whether it's intentionally or whether it's by design or whether it's just a happenstance. I don't know but you know the fact that you've Had the business intelligence to, to realise that you needed to niche down, not stay broad and focus on, the adaptations as an example. A lot of businesses out there struggle with, should we go to a narrower audience? Oh, I don't want to because I might lose some business. But actually what you do is you gel with that industry much more powerfully than you do with trying to please everyone. And then you've got the brand narrative, you've got your messaging, you've got your slogan and tagline, and you've got your story, and you appreciate the power of your story. And I think, any business that has all those things nailed off, makes it a very easy job for anybody to market that business. I'm here to say I think you've actually got an incredible marketing brain. Just because you don't, again, you don't approach it from, this is marketing, you're just concentrating on doing the right thing.

Andrew: 15:53

I think it's authentic. I think it's quite kind of authentic, isn't it? It almost comes naturally just speaking about the things. I go back to maybe the, when we started specializing just on wet rooms, it was so much easier to be able to showcase one thing, educate on one thing, market one thing, speak about one thing. Then this, as a building and maintenance contractor, we've got a really wide spectrum of stuff we cover. And Paul, I'll be honest, we do all this stuff. It probably makes up 40 percent of our business. But we find it easier to focus on one. And it's the,

Paul: 16:29

it's not just because you've niched down doesn't mean you can't say yes to other stuff. It's that you focus on the things that are within your niche, and I've learned that over the last couple of years with my own business I've got my niches, and there are some things that outside of that I'll say yes to, cause I quite fancy doing it, but it's not really something I want to be known for, and it's not something I want to advertise it's just something I'll do, and it pays the bills, and it's quite fun to do, it's exciting, or it's interesting, or it's secure work we've got all of those things. Me then about the marketing that you guys do.'cause admittedly, you are not a marketing expert. You are the CEO of the business. So what have you done to make sure that you guys have the right market and presence?'cause I know you rely on other people and you've brought other people that do that. So what's your philosophy behind that?

Andrew: 17:13

yeah. So there is two sides, like you say. So we've got two companies UPS. Ultimately, and I gotta be honest, there's a lot done through tendering. But we back that up, I believe, with the storytelling, the testimonials, the case studies. We post every day, more so again through the personal brand. I've focused 12 months, Paul, as when we first started, I'd put a lot on the UPS page and felt that it wasn't getting as much engagement. So we concentrated on my brand. And not trying to sell things down people's throat, but try to share a story, share, share, things that we've made a difference. So we'll have a client who's got a problem. How have we fixed it? What was the solution and how can we showcase that to our targeted audience? I think that again is quite important. I think when I first started my journey on LinkedIn, it was how many likes am I getting? How many connects am I getting? How many followers? Whereas now it's been, who do I want to be connected with? I want to be connected with like minded people. I want to be connected with people that might make a difference to my industry. I definitely want to be connected to people that are going to engage in my contact or provide. Useful insights into the stuff that I'm trying to either educate or showcase. So yeah, I think a lot over the last 12 months has been about that. It's turning up every day, engaging in other people's stuff that post as well. Again, prior to the last 12 months, I wouldn't really get involved in other people's content, but I've realized again. That it's important to do you've got to create that community feel, I think. So yeah, I think for UPS, it has been those things that I've mentioned and being consistent. And trying to, again, be authentic not trying to ram a these are my services every day and posting it or putting it into someone's email field mocks every day without ever having to connect to them. I much prefer now to try and find people that need solutions that, are doing, have a need for the work that we're doing and seeing if I can connect with them, relate with them and try and solve the problem rather than, necessarily just sending them a blasé email with these are my services. And I feel it's definitely helped. And I think it's really helped ultimately strengthen our brand in what we do. Like I mentioned, a lot of our stuff is done through tendering, but I will try and find if we're tendering for, I don't know, let's say Trafford council. I'll try and connect with people that, not so that, but just so I might be in the, Oh, I saw UPS the other day. They did that lovely case study they did. And it just, it's there, isn't it? And if that gets you an extra half percent at tendering stage for us, that's worth that effort of posting every day.

Paul: 20:07

Exactly. I think a lot of business owners. underappreciate the power of awareness and brand authority because they're too busy chasing the winds of today. And I get it, right? Like we've all got bills to pay. We've all got revenue that we need to bring in. And yes, today's winds are very important, but unless you want to be chasing today's winds every day, you've got to start dedicating some time to tomorrow, the day after, next week, next month, next year. And you do that through awareness and authority building. And I love that approach because I speak to a lot of business owners who run multiple businesses. And they're always concerned. Like, how do I talk about they're so different. How do I talk about both businesses on my personal profile? And my answer is always the same. It's you don't talk about either. You don't need to talk about either. You talk about you. Talk about your philosophy, your personality your beliefs, your opinions, your expertise, and your passions. And if you do all of that, you come across in the right way, people are going to become curious about what they can get from you and investigate themselves. They'll have an idea, they'll see it from your headline or whatever, but you'll drive them through curiosity and intrigue into what it is that you're trying to do.

Andrew: 21:23

One really interesting point there for me that, that gives me great satisfaction that I know as it works. So say we do get to interview stage for a tender or, and we'll be at answer question and answer time at the end. And there's been quite a few occasions that people will comment that, that are in the interview stage and say, we can really tell that you live, breathe. And really care about the adaptation world cause we see it, it's there. And when I get that, I really know that effort is worthwhile cause you can go along sometimes not have loads of likes, not have loads of, you've got to, you do have to forget about that because if you're connected to the right people, whether they've liked it or not. They're seeing it and it's, it, it might just because they haven't commented doesn't mean that it's not imprinted somewhere on the brain.

Paul: 22:10

Exactly, and Again, I just, I see so many people who worry so much about those vanity metrics, and they have a place, don't get me wrong. They're vanity metrics, they do have a place, and they can be discussed and should be discussed. You should always keep track of them. But, people don't delve into second and third degree analytics behind things, right? So I'm a big fan of looking at demographics of things. And I'm always looking at, what sort of job titles do the viewers of my posts have? Because I could care less if I get 500 views, 200 views, or 20 as long as the 20 are the right people that, that are thinking about or might think about buying my services. That's the important thing. Forget about the impressions impressions by, I have to say as one of my big bug bears. Thank you LinkedIn for making views even more vague so that we can buy, purchase purchase ad time and sponsor it so that we can get more impressions. Lovely. Great touch. If you could, I'm going to take a slightly different track to our podcast than what I normally do. I guess if you could go back and speak to yourself 15 years ago what do you now know about marketing and how to market your business effectively that you would pass on to your younger self that you know would have got you to where you are quicker? for listening.

Andrew: 23:28

Yeah. I think it's going back to probably a little bit to what I said before, I've got one side of me that's really glad I did those 10 years and did all those different things. Learning of all the different hats, but I think if I could go back, I wish I committed to one speciality a little bit or one niche a little bit quicker than I did. Using my story or for anyone else who's got a story being authentic self, it's not necessarily about the Services that you provide. I think people buy from people. So if you've got something interesting to talk about, don't be afraid to talk about it, even if it's something like my story, that's in, a bit adversity I think when I did start to share my story, it was. It was quite powerful, I believe. And I also think I was able to attract people to the business sharing that story which maybe I otherwise wouldn't. So yeah, definitely using that whatever story that might be for the individual, because again, like I say, I think people definitely buy from people. I think getting on video. I think we spoke about this last time and I'm still trying to get better than that myself. I know, again, I'm no expert on these LinkedIn algorithms, but I think it's pretty clear to see that people that do videos and do it consistently do well. So that's definitely something that I would have loved to got onto a little bit earlier in my in my But it's something that I'm aware of and something I'm going to try and improve on. And I think your confidence with time and practice does grow on that, doesn't it?

Paul: 25:04

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I can, do you know what? It's funny because I, we only recorded the first podcast episode a couple of weeks back, but I see a different Andrew sat in front of me already, right? Like you're a different guy to what you were a couple of weeks back doing your first recording. You're a lot less anxious, a lot less nervous. I can see it. And there's lots of room to grow in there. I remember being a kid. I remember, I'll share this story with everyone, I remember the first time I pressed go on a live stream on LinkedIn. Middle of the pandemic, I'd come out of retail, I'd been a retail manager for my entire career, mid level management at best, and I had huge imposter syndrome, didn't really see what I could add to anyone, and I created a live stream that 250 people turned up to in the middle of COVID, in lockdown. I. Cannot describe how mortified I was pressing that record button. But I did it and we got through it. And then I did another one and I did another one and I did another one. And I got to the point where I could have a laugh on the camera. And it took me a long time to get where I am now. And I'm still got a long way to go, but it's amazing and well done for getting that first. I saw your first kind of in-car video. You went out on LinkedIn, you tagged me in it. Love it. It's great to see people like. It doesn't matter how bad you think your video is, you're still doing more than your competition are doing. And

Andrew: 26:29

again, it's.

Paul: 26:29

into your weaknesses.

Andrew: 26:31

It's taking that authenticness, I think, to the next level, isn't it? It's easy to type behind the screen and post with a picture, but you stick a video in there, I think that does really bring that authenticness to the next level, doesn't it? And allows your connections, your audience, your clients, whoever they may be, To really get a feel of who you are and what you're about. Like you say, you, as soon as you can put your own doubts, which is really what it isn't it? Your own nervousness, your own doubts, your imposter syndrome. Like you said, once you can put that behind and practice, like you say, I generally know myself as well. I feel more comfortable in, in this one than I did last time. I don't know why, but I do probably cause we've done it once already.

Paul: 27:12

Get the reps in. Yeah, that's it. I think the first time is a bit of a fear of the unknown as well. You don't know what you're getting yourself into and how it's going to work. But no, hands on heart takes a lot of courage. To get yourself out there the first few times and people say, Oh, the first time is the worst. It's not. Your second video is definitely the worst because then you've got the expectations. Your first one did all right, because the first video you posted, now you're expecting all the likes and comments. And just the algorithm doesn't give it the attention it did the first one. So it starts to flop. Third one gets nothing. It's

Andrew: 27:41

Yeah. But then that's where you've got to keep going. And you've got to, keep going with that consistency.

Paul: 27:46

you've got to have faith. Andrew, I've loved our conversation today. I'm pleased we redid it. I actually, I've really enjoyed today's conversation much more than the first one. If you've inspired somebody who's out there listening along and really enjoyed hearing about your story and maybe they've run their own podcast, maybe they just want to ask you a few questions because they've been in a similar position or know someone who is, maybe it's just another business owner who's curious about how they could work with you. How can they contact you or the business?

Andrew: 28:15

Yeah. Website, it's got all our contact details on also I'm sure we will be able to put the, my LinkedIn into my into the comments after yeah, anyone can get me through LinkedIn. And again, I'd be more than happy to have a chat with anyone who feels there might be an interesting chat there. If I can help it, if not one person. Or inspire one person or, that, that would mean the world to me. That was the idea of coming on something like this. Cause if it helps someone it'll make me feel good.

Paul: 28:40

Brilliant. I love it. Thank you so much for your time today, Andrew. Thank you for re recording. And I wish you, the irony is this goes out in April but like it's the 4th of December today, so I'm going to wish you a Merry Christmas and all the audience are going to cringe. Um,

Andrew: 28:54

We'll skip that bit then and wish them all that hope they have a prosperous 2025.

Paul: 28:59

yeah, enjoy your summer holidays, everyone. Alright, Nice Easter.

Andrew: 29:02

Yeah.

Paul: 29:03

Brilliant. Alright, thanks for your time, Andrew. Take care. Bye bye.

Andrew: 29:06

very much. Cheers. Cheers.