Paul: 0:29

Hello and welcome back for another episode of MarketPulse Pros and Pioneers, and today I'm joined by the fantastic Hilary Lewis, who's the Marketing Director at Winchester Corporate Finance. Hilary, welcome to the show.

Hilary: 0:41

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Paul: 0:44

Do you know, it's probably took me nine months to get to the point where I was actually happy with how I've introduced the guest. That was, that's probably the first time I feel like, oh well done Paul, that went really smoothly, you said it it's podcasting.

Hilary: 0:56

worry, I'm, I, it's a pleasure to be here.

Paul: 0:58

We keep it real on this show, we keep it real, we're just podcasting. We're just people, and I think, there's too many podcasts out there where it's so polished and professional that you'd never guess that there's a real person behind it. I'm not a celebrity, I'm not a, I'm just me, I'm just Paul, and you're just Hilary, and we're just having a chat, and that's nice.

Hilary: 1:15

I think it it now everything, it I think there's a lot of pressure on generally for everything to be polished and perfect and actually. Sometimes it's better to just get out and do it, isn't it? Rather than worry too much about how you're going to get from A to B, just get it done and then worry about it later.

Paul: 1:32

Done. Beats. Perfect. Every time. Every time. If you're listening along at home, thanks For joining us. Hello. Hilary here is she specialises in helping businesses secure the best financing solutions. She's got over 15 years experience as a business owner, just like you, just like me. And this is why Hilary ended up on the show is because she's been on the other side of the, desk. And she owned a business in the beauty sector and also vacation rentals. And her transition into corporate finance has seen her grow LinkedIn presence for Winchester by a whopping 400 percent and developed some successful branding strategies to work alongside that, So Ella is also a speaker and a passionate advocate for women in finance, which is, I can, I can count on one hand how many connections I have that work in finance who are women. So hats off for championing that cause. And Hilary uses her marketing expertise to help drive business growth, as well as fostering that strong client relationships that we mentioned before the shows. so key to how you move on Hilary. I think some things that we learn in our past lives set us up for success in our next career when you finally make that transition. So do you want to just, is that a good place to start then? Do you think we should maybe start with

Hilary: 2:47

Yeah, definitely. I think so. I think with, when you work in beauty, obviously that's, that was a sector. You're building relationships from the off. Someone might come in initially looking for something like an eyebrow wax, which is a really small 15 minute treatment. And they'll get to know you and they'll slowly trust you enough to then let you, see them naked, touch their body, mess around with their face, you build that trust up. And from there, they then introduce you to their, their mom, their sister, their, the rest of their extended family. And it goes through well. So nurturing those like real long term relationships was something that, really came naturally to me, like making someone welcome them into the business and making them feel comfortable was what I used to do on an everyday basis. And I didn't really realize it was a skill until I came into finance and realized that not everyone's actually like that. And, but actually that is what the industry needed the most. So I've come in and shaken things up a little bit. Don't get me wrong. There are some fantastic people within the industry. I'm not saying that it was awful until I arrived, but I don't think that enough people in the industry are actually shouting about that side of things and making finance accessible to business owners, because. We're all, we're all people, as we said before, and it's hard, I think, to trust someone enough to open up that vulnerability, which is your finances to them. Because if you don't, no one wants to be in a position where they can't run their business because they've overextended themselves or they're not quite, sure who to actually turn to. So that's what I've done from where I've gone from at least, my starting point.

Paul: 4:27

It's, I see a lot of people in the finance sector and the wealth management sector who are very good at in person events. And we tend to find whole networking events where you're swamped by wealth advisors and financial advisors. And it's a given because they're the ones that are putting the event on and they're in control of everybody who's come. And you know that there's a hidden sales pitch implied behind it all and it's all really quite painful if I'm honest. I really detest that in person veiled pitch slap. Everybody talks about being in your inbox and I think the in person ones are even worse. And Finance particularly is an industry where it's a crowded market and there's very little differentiation from a lot of businesses. And I talk to businesses I'm quite keen to work with accountancies and professional services and financial advisors because I know, having worked in similar industry before, that all you have to do is differentiate yourself. Not the product, not the service, yourself. And that doesn't mean you need to wear big floppy clown shoes. It's just about showcasing why you're doing what you do. So be keen to get your thoughts on that, as well as then leading into, nicely from that, like, why did you decide to get into finance based on where you were? Like what's the common link? Yeah,

Hilary: 5:44

apart as a company, so Winchester Corporate Finance with the way that we work is we're really customer centric and rather than being it. A brokerage that just secures or just sources asset finance, or just does invoice finance. We actually. Really, our USP is the way that we work rather than the product that we sell. So everyone that comes to us when they come, we do give them a business review. So first things first, a lot of business owners are using the wrong product already, or think that they want a certain product, and actually the one that would be perfect for their businesses is a complete different. They might not have even heard of it. So the first thing we do is actually look at them, find out exactly what they need to use the finance for and figure out what the right product When I had my business, I would have, what would have been perfect would have been a Merchant Cash Advance for me. And I went to my bank manager, as you do, and they, Didn't offer that product. Didn't mention it to me. I didn't know anything about it. It wasn't until I joined finance that I realized that would have been the product that would have been perfect. And actually I could have, it would have worked with my business model so much better than any other product that I used within the 15 years that I was in there. And I'm like, Oh, that's not very helpful. But the problem is that. Not every, your high street bank might not offer that certain product. So if you actually speak to an advisor who has access to the whole of the market or the, or a very large chunk of it, at least they're going to be able to understand what is going to be better for you than just going to. A business that only offers one product or is like a search engine, let's say, and they're just gonna, it's like a tick box exercise. Like we are very customer centric in our approach. And I think that really does set us apart. And I guess I really like the aspect that when I joined finance, I could literally help people who had been, who I had been in that business community that I'd come from, especially beauty in itself, it's often run by women. On a whole, women aren't as women in business aren't as established as men. And it's something that I've become really passionate about because I've learned since I've been in, in the finance industry, I was shocked to find out that. Stats like we haven't been at, women as a whole haven't been able to have get business loans since 1988. Before then we needed a male counterpart to sign for us. So we've just not been sat at that table for as long and it hasn't been as accessible and there's a massive gender gap when it comes to like funding and finances. So for me, especially being able to go back to the beauty community that I came from and really help and provide that level of support has been brilliant. But it's expanded really cause I've opened it up. It's opened up more doors for just women in business as a whole. And obviously we still work with a lot of men. The majority of our clients are men because there's more men in business than there are women. But like the women in finance aspect, the women in business one is just naturally Come hands in hands for me, and it's been a really nice way of giving back to the community that I came from, but it wasn't a conscious decision that, Oh, actually that's the route that I need to go down. It was just luck that I ended up randomly, my younger sister was working in recruitment and she hadn't worked in there before or after, but she was just helping a friend out that, that happened to be. And she met my boss and she came back and she was like, I've met this company. And I think that you would love it there. At this point. Sold both my businesses. I was just concentrating on being a mom. And I was like, Oh, I don't even think, I'm not really that bothered. And she was like, Oh, can you please just do me a favor? I just need to at least get them some candidates. And I was like I don't have an, I don't have a CV. What am I going to do? And threw something together. I didn't really think about it. Didn't think I'd get an interview. But it just snowballed from there. And I arrived for a, it was a junior broker position. And they were like, Oh, you're a bit overqualified for this, but you've obviously marketed your own businesses. Could you maybe come back and interview for that role? And I was like yeah, I can. Thinking, Oh, I better Google what marketing is officially. No, I'm joking. I did. I did, I had done as part of my 20 years ago at my HND in beauty, I had done like a, there was a marketing segment within it, but it was all, it wasn't digital marketing, it was all like old school marketing. So I did know how to do it, but it was just, yeah, it did feel that way that I was a bit like, Oh my God, can I even do this? And I still feel a little bit like that now. I always feel that, that kind of imposter syndrome sinks in thinking all these very accomplished marketers seem to really know what they're doing. And there's me on LinkedIn, like telling everyone, Oh, you should do it this way. And people seem to like it.

Paul: 10:19

But that's exactly it, and I find Marketers that are classically trained, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm just gonna say it, marketers that are classically trained, quite often I find you fucking boring. There, I've said it, I've said it, you all talk the same talk, you promote all the same strategies, we want businesses to all do the same things, and we end up shoehorning everyone into the same bucket. But I'm gonna hide behind my chartered marketer, degree, whatever I haven't got a marketer's degree, I don't want one, I was told once I should get one. No, I can't think of anything worse to do with my life than get another degree or another qualification. I'm from the life, the school of life we do all these things, we try things. And I think just being able to be unpredictable is what a lot of people need in the current day and age. Is that what you find?

Hilary: 11:42

Yeah yes, I don't think anyone I like to think I have some content pillars within my social media strategy. But yeah, I don't think I'm undiagnosed, but I do think I've probably got ADHD and I do actually think it probably helps me in the sense that I'm never, no one is ever really quite sure what's going to come out of my mouth or the way that I'm going to take something and then answer it or think it. And I don't, know. So I'd like to think that it keeps everyone on their toes a little bit. And sometimes, things will, I think that's the thing, isn't it? An event will happen for a lot of people, perhaps you'll go to the same conference or whatever, but my take on it is going to be completely different from yours if we were both there, and I think that's, what's helped me so well, that coming into an, like a new industry. And being able to just journal what my experience has been and what I'm seeing and what I'm doing, that's, what's resonated with people because I don't really like social media. It's not like my bag, but when I was told like, Oh, you have to join LinkedIn. It's the best thing that I ever did. Like I actually love what I do and how I work it. But I do, there is like effort that goes into it. I think people assume that, Oh, if you must just be good at social media. I'm like, no, I've had to learn how to do this. Like I've, I, and I've learned through the platform, like massively. I've always, I'm a big, I'm a big geek. So I really like to like test things and look back on the data and I'll analyze what I'm doing and my top performing posts and then try and replicate those. For whatever it is my audience is looking for. But I've learned the most from following copywriters and LinkedIn coaches and getting training and picking up tips loads. So I feel like I've done more learning in the last two and a half years, mainly through signing up to newsletters and reading social media posts and just, The bite sized information that my little brain can handle. TikTok is great for me to learn how to do something. So yeah, I think that's the way to, to go for it there. Especially if you've got a really small marketing budget and you can't afford to go in and go I'm going to blow it all on, on signing up with some excellent marketing agencies and using their services or,

Paul: 13:49

quite often I find that businesses who can run their marketing themselves in a DIY fashion manage to do things really well. It's, but to your point earlier on, right? We, none of us got into what we're doing to spend half our life on social media and promoting ourselves on LinkedIn and doing marketing exercises. And so for a lot of people, it's just another competing priority, another job that needs to be done. And. I'd imagine having somebody like yourself on board who's actually, it's the big shiny thing in my world right now, is I need to get this nailed off and this is my job and I'm gonna really nail it. It's invaluable to a business. And I'd say heartily, if you know somebody within your business who's keen to get involved just hand it off to them. Cause I bet they'll do a better job than you will.

Hilary: 14:33

Massively. Especially if they're keen. But I also think, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I would love it if the director of our company would get on board and would start posting. I would love it. But Callum is not going to. He's no, it's not for me. I don't want to do it. That's not what I want to do. And then I'm like the sales team, the brokers can get on and they'll post. But they're not as. They hate having their picture taken. They're just typical boys in the office and they're like, Oh, for God's sake, Hillary, what are you trying to get us to do now? Like, all right I will do it then. But there's reluctance, given their dues they do they'll chip in when I say, okay, this is what I'm, this is what they're like I'll be your cameraman. I've had them filming me jumping the sea in January and I've had them like, they've come and they've given their support. So they will muck in, but it, they don't really, I can't say they enjoy it, but

Paul: 15:19

not their day

Hilary: 15:19

you have got. No, that, and then I've got better things to do with my time. That's your job. You do that. I'm going to be really good at finding this, sourcing this finance or someone. And that's fair that's fair enough. But if you've got people within your company that are prepared even if it's just like the secretary and the cleaning lady. That would be awesome because they're still gonna be taking, talking about your business, your, like your culture, what it's like to be an employee for you. If they're happy to do that, then why wouldn't you want them? If you don't want your employees, that's when I think that's a massive red flag for companies. I don't want any of you posting. What are you worried that your employees are going to say? Or why don't

Paul: 16:00

corporate for me. Yeah.

Hilary: 16:02

Yeah. Even if I think, and I think this is where the big corporate companies, they're the ones who are losing out because they've got no one like saying, Oh, this is a great firm. I love them. What? That's free advertising right there. Like you're going to attract more staff, like for an HR, from an HR point of view, they should be seeing it as you're going to attract and retain more top quality staff. If you've got people actually wanting to come and work for you, it's crazy. I digress.

Paul: 16:30

I'm a big believer that your senior leaders in any organisation, no matter how small the business is your senior leaders are always your best salespeople. And I do totally understand that they're also the most time poor. You've run a business, I've run a business, I know the competing priorities, and, hands on heart I do video for my clients, that's what Javelin's set up to do, and I still can't be bothered to do my own videos. I still hate doing my own social posts, cause I'd much rather be working on client work and delivering for them to see the smile on their face, right? Exactly. My advice would be, if you're in that sort of a business where the senior leadership They'll do as they need to do, but it's not really important to them. My advice would be just try and get some time with them once. Showcase to them what you can do with that, get it on video, turn it into lots of things, and then go, you know what, here's what we created from all that. Isn't it impressive? Now we can all leverage your experience and your capabilities and your opinions and your sales skills, and we want to do it again next month. And just make it easy for them, is my advice.

Hilary: 17:37

That's the thing, isn't it? If you can just allow one day to get it done and time block and have structure to that concept. Yeah yeah, it depends on how much content you want to make, but yes, as you say, half an hour would be enough. And I think from their point of view, they don't have, videos work really well on LinkedIn, but, even if it was just a post, a written post, One a week is going to be better than none a week, isn't it? It's just having that consistency to

Paul: 18:03

I just think

Hilary: 18:04

But

Paul: 18:04

we're all so keen to turn up to Teams and Zoom meetings because they're productive, right? Just have a Teams meeting that's about content for your business. Record it. That's it. Done. Because I guarantee there'll be a hundred bytes within that where you can either clip it out and use it as a reel, or you can just take the elements that we've discussed about and turn them into posts. And it, feed it into chatGPT do what you want with it yeah. There's so many ways to make people efficient. But Yeah. I think we always have this kind of idea of procrastination over these, over content marketing, because, oh, it's going to take a lot of time, it's a lot of effort, and somebody's got to do it, and I don't want to do it. But if you can make it easy for people and just go, why don't you just talk to me about something you're really passionate about for 20 minutes. Just talk to me, and I'll do the rest. Then, Yeah. Then you can build a real case for it. So anyway, we digress. Hillary, like I looked at your LinkedIn profile earlier on, and you're ranked as a global top 50 women in accounting 2024, right? That is phenomenal for somebody who's transitioned careers.

Hilary: 19:04

Yeah.

Paul: 19:04

is your passion based around for wanting women to get into the financial sector? Talk me through it.

Hilary: 19:12

I just, I think for me, it's just coming from a place of not feeling. I, when I had my business, I felt, I felt really confident. I felt like I knew everything, but it wasn't until I joined the finance industry that I realized that I really didn't, and I touched on it before. I was using the wrong sort of products and it just, it's not a great feeling to feel like, Oh, actually more women. And when you start reading the stats and looking into the data behind like women in business and women who have been in. The gender statistics that come out in the reports on, who's getting finance and how they're applying and whether they know what to get. We're way behind. We are improving. Don't get me wrong. The more recent data that's come out, we are improving, but, We're not improving enough and I think that coming from an industry, the beauty industry particularly, is so female dominant. I was shocked when I joined finance. I didn't realize that there weren't many women in it. There's no reason for women not to be in finance. There is literally none. It's not like it's a really physical job. You're not asking, it's not, they're not, you're not asking people to hod carry. You're asking people to sit at a computer and do it and, The more I looked into it, when I started, I felt like I've come from a really inclusive support network. Like the beauty industry is so everyone tends to know everyone, everyone's super friendly. We're in that kind of nurturing environment. And I was a bit like I want to replicate that in finance. There's not many women I want to, I think it's, I find it easier to, show that vulnerable side and be like, actually, I don't feel like I know what I'm doing. I'm feeling that much easier to say to a woman within the industry than another man. And that's probably, that's on me. That's not on the industry. That's just how I feel about it. But I feel like when I first joined, I thought I'd prefer to, there's not many women here, why don't I try and meet up with some of the women that are and see what I can learn from them, see what they've experienced, get some tips, and that's what I started. I started doing some women in finance events and it just snowballed. And I felt like I'm learning here. We also, our major channels. So we obviously market directly to business owners who are looking for finance, but one of our big channels is introducers and they generally happen to be accountants and. I thought actually I can learn from peers if I can get women within the industry, but I can also use this to my advantage and actually maybe start building some relationships with some local accountancy practices, maybe get some, relationships and get some business leads from there. And just started doing women in finance events that were, heavy on the accountancy side. And that, again, it just snowballed. I started going to. More industry events for accountants and just helping them, support everything that was coming up in these meetings. I was realizing that the problems that, that women were having within the industry is in, within the finance industry, they were definitely having those same issues within accounting. And it, it just meant that from there, That I realized that actually they're also having these problems within business. It is just almost like a female issues within the workplace. And there, there are definitely running on a a regular theme. And it just made me realize that I, it was. It worked really well for me from a point of, yes, I'm going to get business out of this, but also I'm going to learn and maybe I can start making the industry change and making more people aware that we should talk about this. Because when you've been sat around a table, And women have been pushed out of jobs since they've, left to have a baby, or they've been overlooked for a promotion, or the stories that from around the table were very similar. And it was really heartbreaking to listen to thinking I'm a mom. I've just come in. I don't want to be, I don't want to feel like I can't, or can't do as well as the men within the industry. I don't want to. There have been some awful stories that have come out of discrimination, a lot of sexism, a lot of misogyny, especially at industry events where like alcohol was in, very, the finance world seems to be quite alcohol heavy, like lots of alcohol. After hours they're not socials, but lots of, yeah, soirees. And it's expected to go out after, after work for drinks and that's not me. Like one, I don't really drink much now anyway, but two, like I've, I'm at work for work. I have a home life. I've, I'm a wife. I'm, I've got children. They're my main focus. They're who I want to be with at the weekends and in my evening time. I'm, I am not going to industry events all the time. That's not what I'm interested in. Yep. And I thought I don't want to be overlooked or devalued because I'm not prepared to do that. And I don't think, but I don't often think that necessarily comes up for men within the industry. I don't, I think that's the that's my part and parcel of my job and I'm doing that. Whereas I think as women, sometimes we have to make those decisions of what do I want? Do I want a family or do I want a bit of career? And it was those sorts of conversations that kept coming up. And it. It just made me think this is wrong. I'm not going to, I'm not going to stand for that. That's not what I want for my experience within the industry. And I doubt other women were going to want the same. Not that I can speak for all women, but it just made me a bit more passionate about actually let's try and get some change within the industry and support women better.

Paul: 24:40

I think it's a fantastic initiative and there's a whole episode. I've spent the last five minutes trying not to get on a rant about the childcare industry because my wife's former childcare industry, she's come and joined me in my business now. I know, I've seen it from the inside and I've seen what she's had to put up with from the inside and the restrictions that, that, that industry not being sustainable puts on the rest of the country in terms of childcare and not being able to return to work and tax not paid and people living on benefits and there's so many things that come from the back of that. I'm super, really gets my goat and it really annoys me because I know my wife's probably more capable than I am, And I would promote her to do, I'm, I'd love her to have her own business and things. She won't that's her choice and that's her decision. But there is so much more behind it all that I just think if she did want to do it, she wouldn't be able to do it because she's basically why would she go to work and have to pay her wage to, to get the children? Oh, I digress. I'm trying not to get on that high horse, but I do.

Hilary: 25:45

But, I think for most families, I think that, that comes into play a lot, doesn't it? Because it's a conversation that if you're a two parent household it's a conversation that often happens between husbands and wives or, the parents and it is difficult. It is a, it's a really difficult. Conversation to have. And it's not just, I'm not, I think people are very quick to be like, Oh, you're such a feminist. And it's I don't, I'm just an equalitist. I feel like everyone should be treated the same and we should have. To be able to have that conversation and a sensible conversation as a couple and decide, who's going to go back to work, who's going to look after the kids, or how are we going to work this between us? Because that is, it makes two of you to make the children, doesn't it should be a shared men now like there's a lot of men. I have some fantastic conversations with men within my network who are like, Oh, I really support what you're saying, especially if they've got children themselves or they've got wives or, like the allyship is definitely there. And strong within a lot, but I think sometimes there's so many things that are really ingrained that we don't even realize as a society that we're actually being a little bit misogynistic within our approach to things without realizing.

Paul: 26:58

that way for so long, that the whole system is built around men being at work, and from a very young age it's drilled into us. I do totally get where you're coming to from it.

Hilary: 27:09

yeah. And it's hard. Like I don't ever want to offend anyone with what I talk about or what I, but I, and then that's the other side of things you get that

Paul: 27:17

whole other episode on, there's another whole episode on, I'm a white middle aged bloke who, I can't say things without offending people anymore. Because I want to say things to support people, but there are so many pitfalls in supporting them. Am I mansplaining things? Am I just being patronizing? Am I leaving people out? And so it, it also there's another side of things where there's this whole, because of the equality movement, there are so many of us who want to support our either, either our wives and partners or the women, or even just, minorities. And we're at a point where I don't even know what to say anymore, so I don't, because I don't know, wouldn't know how to say it correctly.

Hilary: 27:55

yeah,

Paul: 27:56

rather than risk an argument,

Hilary: 27:57

We're all learning, aren't we? And I think that, I think, especially when you're in, on, places like LinkedIn and you're putting your opinions out there, it's really hard to not fear things like that whole cancel culture. You don't want to say the wrong thing, but I think it's a windy path to navigate. Like I'm very aware that I don't like to be cancelled. Controversial, but sometimes some of the things I say are going to rile people up. I think I've had it before where the language that I've used, I think I used a, I think I stated some of the facts, but I used it in the way I said it was something like, Oh, male pale and stale talking about the finance industry. Now, in my mind, I'm saying that because there's lots of old fashioned views and it's mainly white, old men that are within the industry. Now, to me, I'm like, oh, I'm just, saying the data, but so many people get so offended by that statement. with the truth hurts a little bit. I don't feel like I'm being controversial, but obviously a lot of people feel that is, so

Paul: 28:57

And there's a lesson there for marketing which is that indifference kills your business. It is the biggest killer of businesses and you've got to, I'm not saying be controversial, but you can't sit on the fence forever and be vanilla and be wildly successful at the same time.

Hilary: 29:15

Yeah.

Paul: 29:19

I certainly wouldn't be putting a big blue slide in my office, although my son would love that. I'm not going to lie, I'd one as well. But I don't think my wife's gonna go for it.

Hilary: 29:28

I'm awful. Do you know, I'm one of these people that I know who I know on LinkedIn, but I'm, I am not one. You're going to catch me reading fiction and not business books. I am not one to sit down and read I on those kind of scales. So I wasn't, it wasn't. I couldn't have picked out Stephen Bartlett from a crowd until the last two years, because I've been on LinkedIn now, but

Paul: 29:47

on

Hilary: 29:48

that I was like, I don't know who he is I don't know if he's on Dragon's Den, it's me, I don't know what he looks like. Then I'm I think that sometimes helps in a little way that I'm like if I haven't read what the, anyone else is spouting off, I'm not going to be regurgitating it, it's not going to be an echo chamber, because that's I think sometimes what you can get on LinkedIn, like, how much of it is nonsense and how much of it is just everyone just nodding in

Paul: 30:10

30 killer hooks that'll get your audience reading and convert them into customers. Steal mine and use them today! They've all been used for the last six years. We're all bored of them.

Hilary: 30:19

Yeah.

Paul: 30:19

it clickbait.

Hilary: 30:22

Yeah, I'm not a fan of templates. I can get, I can understand why initially people might go, okay I I think the problem is that a lot of the time people talk about, oh, to write a good post or to do this, but people don't necessarily understand what go, a good post looks like. So it's almost actually the, some of the best copywriting posts that I found most helpful were the ones that actually would break down and be like, These are five, my top performing posts, and then they would break down, look, this is a hook, this is what I've then done, this is why I've then, and that's my call to action, and that's what I've done. And it wasn't until I got that in my head, that you need those little elements within a post. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I can replicate that. That's fine. I can, as long as I've got those things, it'll be a good post. But until you, until the pain drops.

Paul: 31:04

Yeah. I just can't, I make it up as I go along. I'm not going to lie. I make it up as I go along. I write for clients and I write for myself and every day I just sit down at the desk and go, all right, what am I going to do today?

Hilary: 31:14

yeah.

Paul: 31:15

many copies of my ad? What am I going to, what ludicrous things am I going to say today? I'll leave people to be the judge of that rather than try and promote my own. Yeah.

Hilary: 31:28

isn't it, if you write from the heart, or if you write something that's gonna resonate with other people, if you can pull that emotional side of things, a lot of the time people are like, yeah, that's, you're actually talking sense right there, or, no, I hate bourbon biscuits and I love custard creams I don't, I'm actually the other way around, but, if you can add something like that, then,

Paul: 31:44

I'm like, ooh, biscuits.

Hilary: 31:45

Yeah. You

Paul: 31:47

Is it sweet? I'll

Hilary: 31:48

Hehehehe.

Paul: 31:49

Hilary, we could clearly, you and I could go on for a long period of time, and I think everybody will have stopped watching by the time we finish talking. I need to have you back on the show again at some point, so watch this, fierce people. We will have Hilary back on. It's been an absolute pleasure Hilary, I've really enjoyed the conversation and I think there are so many takeaways for small business owners to, to just listen to the bits and pieces, not everything, please don't listen to everything, but listen to the bits and pieces and just take your own learnings from the things that we've discussed today. Hilary, if people want to reach out to you and find out a bit more, how can they discover you and Winchester Finance?

Hilary: 32:22

And so Winchester Corporate Finance is the best place I would say would be our website, which is www. winchestercf. com and I am on LinkedIn. So if you find it, I would say that's probably The best place to start is to literally put Hilary Lewis. Luckily for me, there's not many ladies called Hilary of my age group. They're normally that much older. And that's Hilary with one L. That's what I would say. And Lewis with an I.

Paul: 32:46

There you go. There you go. Perfect. I will make sure all that's in the show notes. And thank you very much for taking the time to come and share your experiences with us, Hilary. And I'm sure there's loads of snips. You'll, we'll get loads of content from this and, we'll be able to share lots and, lots of things with the industry. If you're watching along at home, thank you very much for coming along And experiencing another episode with us. By the, time this gets released, we're probably heading up to year end for most people, so scary times! Your accounts are due, urgh, VAT bills are due, urgh I hope everything's well for you. Please don't forget to subscribe whilst you're worrying about what's dropped in your email box while you've been listening. And I will see you soon. Thank you, bye bye.