Paul: 0:29

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of MarketPulse pros and pioneers. I have to stutter every time I say that because I have two or three different shows for two or three different reasons and I work with clients and every week I come to record and I go, good evening. And my mind's going, yeah, get the show right. Get the show, do get it right, but it takes this is good. This week I want to welcome to the show, Adrian Fulle. Adrian is the president and CEO at Good Salt Life where he merges the fantastic background in Hollywood storytelling with strategic market and experience. So over 20 years in entertainment, working with top brands and celebrities, and Adrian was telling me some fabulous stories before the episode started about some names and people that he's worked with. But interestingly, That wasn't where Adrian wanted to be. So he made a career shift, a quite a bold one at that, at the age of 40, moving from Los Angeles to Denver, and then transitioning into marketing. And I can, I know a few people have made similar moves. I totally understand why that would happen. I'm going to try and share that with the audience today as we're going along so where Adrian is unique is that his approach combines narrative techniques. With data and neuroscience and I think it's so so powerful that most people don't ever get close to understanding it. And he helps businesses to create impactful brand stories and then successful business strategies on the back of that. Adrian, thank you so much for coming along, being a guest on the show. It's a pleasure to have you on.

Adrian: 2:03

Thank you. It's been a great pleasure to be on, Paul. Appreciate it.

Paul: 2:05

Fantastic. First up. I know the audience are going to want to hear this because they've already pricked their ears up. 20 years in Hollywood. Wow. You must have some outrageous stories to tell, right?

Adrian: 2:17

I definitely have some that I won't repeat on this podcast, but I started my career. I was passionate about telling stories in the theatrical medium or the film medium. I wanted to make movies and I was from Chicago and I went to film school in Chicago. And right out of film school, I got a lucky break with the director and writer from the 1980s, all the big movies in the 80s, his name was John Hughes, some of your audience may have heard of him, but he did, Ferris Bueller's Day Off and Baby's Day Out and Sixteen Candles and, all the big ones that influenced me as a young man growing up in Illinois. And so I got a job working for him. He became my mentor on the writing side, and I entered into the entertainment business as a writer. First, I had a screenplay that was picked up by a producer, an independent film producer, and by the age of 23, I was off making my first movie. It was pretty exciting. Ultimately, over time, that evolved. I moved to Los Angeles after two or three films having made two or three films in Illinois. And and that evolved over time, over 20 years in Los Angeles, I became a producer ultimately because I learned that I was a good storyteller, but I wasn't a great, like the top of the line filmmaker. So I said, all right I'm going to go learn from some other filmmakers, I'll go produce for them cause I know how to produce. You had to learn that in film school. So I started producing and that just became a business. Next thing I know, I'm, we're making commercials and music videos and marketing content for brands like Red Bull and Paramount Pictures and Warner Brothers and all the big studios. And it was quite a ride. Variety Magazine, which is the Bible of of the entertainment industry, one day called and said, we're looking for someone to come build our content studio. Would you want to do that? And so that was my first sort of, Minor career shift. And that of course led me into the circles of all those celebrities and those crazy stories. And, got to interview Angelina Jolie, got to hang out with Robert Pattinson, got to, do video content for Madonna, Lady Gaga. You name it. It's just nuts how many. Celebrities I was able to meet. But the one thing I learned through all of that, Paul, was that that thing that we all went into the business for, that passion to tell stories for most of us, and I have to look in the mirror and look back and say, it probably was for me too, although I always denied it. There really was that drive for fame and fortune. And slowly over time I got older and I was no longer the young, cool guy in the room about all the meetings. I was the oldest guy with not the cool ideas anymore. And I didn't have that passion anymore. I didn't have that desire for whatever it was I was searching for by going into that business in the first place and was getting depressed. And my wife said look, if there's no passion. And it's just a job. And if it's just a job, there's a lot of jobs where you're not working nights and weekends, and you can see your kid grow up and that kind of thing. So I decided at 42 years old, I think I was, or forget the age, my early forties to make a career shift. And I got to tell you, man, it's been the best thing ever to happen to me, but also the scariest thing I did at that time in my life. Cause it's hard. It's hard to leave a network of 20 years of work and completely change everything and have no new network and safety net or anything like

Paul: 5:22

And I think that is the story of Many founders of their own businesses, perhaps without the magnification of what was Hollywood, right? So I think if I, even if I reflect on my own journey, there was a crucible that I went through, which was retail for me. There's Hollywood for you, retail for me, but ultimately it's the same thing, right? It is, it all boils down to the same thing. We set out in the world to make a difference. We get an opportunity, we do make a difference to an extent, and then we realise that there's limitations. That role, that job, that career isn't built on the things that we enjoy doing. And I think as you get older, you start to get closer to your why. Your, what gets me out of bed in the morning? And it's not the career. It's not money, it's not, all those things are nice, no doubt and I know, I've no doubt there are people out there who have money who are perfectly happy with what they're doing and how they got away. I know a lot of people who have money who aren't, are still looking for that next big thing, that next dopamine hit, that next endorphin rush. And. I think what you've described there is that exact thing? Like you, you got to that point, you realized it was something more and you've chased that and hats off to your point, exactly 20 year career and a network built around that to then give that up and do something else. I can imagine that really was scary. Was it the right choice?

Adrian: 6:49

it was the right choice. I got to tell you that many of the, I'm not going to name names. That's not fair. But many of the celebrities that I worked with and met were miserable. And I was just shocked because some of them were my idols. Like I would walk into the room and I couldn't believe I'm standing there with so and and and they're talking to me like an equal and I'm a human being and they're just a human being and we're getting along as people that, that was stunning, but at the same time, you start to see that they're not happy. And I want to scream at the top of my lungs, but you got what everybody wants. You've got the fame and fortune. Why, how could you not be happy? And I think not until I made that shift and we moved to Colorado and I went into marketing, did we realize that I realized that happiness doesn't come from those things. It's the old story. We've heard it a million times, but it doesn't come from that money. It doesn't come from achieving a career goal. It comes from somewhere else. And and we're much happier now with a better quality of life, for example, than working 24, 7, but having a status, I walked down the street. Nobody cares what I do. They don't recognize me. I'm just the bald guy from down the street, and but in L. A. And we live You know, you really wanted people to see you. They wanted people to come up to you and say, Hey, I know so and so who knows you, you worked on this project, whatever. That feeling is like a, getting a like on Facebook or Instagram, hard, it's like a, that dopamine hit. It doesn't last forever. And quite frankly, when you deplete your dopamine, what happens? You get depressed. And so now I see a whole. Industry of people that are depressed and unhappy and they're on medications to become happy, to get over depression. But when reality is the thing that they're doing is making them unhappy. The thing that they thought would make them happy is actually making them unhappy. So that's my experience. Not everyone, like we talked about in the brief, some people are very happy at that world. And I did meet a few celebrities that were very happy with their lives.

Paul: 8:36

I think there are a couple of things that probably feed into that situation that I've, through conversations that I've had on the podcast, conversations I have with my network, and there are two things that seem to keep recurring is first thing is we tend to, and this is a sidetrack slightly from the purpose of the podcast, right? But let's go with it. First off We raise our children to talk about what career they want to have, what job they want to have, to dream to have an amazing job in the eyes of a six, seven, eight year old that doesn't see the baggage that comes with those jobs or the long hours that are required to be good at that job or whatever, rather than training our children to identify what makes them happy. So we ask our kids, what do you want to be when we should be asking them, Why do you want to do what you want to do? What makes you happy in life? How can we help you do more of that? And I'm, I always struggled to identify a career path. Like my, my, my senior leadership would be like, so what do you want to do in 10 years time? Where do you want to be? What role do you want to have? I'm like, I don't know. I just want to do more of the things that make me happy. And I can't tell you what that is right now because it changes over time. So let's just see where it gets to. I'm not going to worry about it.

Adrian: 9:53

I'm just going to double click on that. I made a conscious decision to not define myself by my career. That was part of the career change was to say, I don't introduce myself as a film producer anymore. I am just Adrian. My wife's from Italy. And I remember when we were first dating, I met her Italian family and I asked her father and the cousins. The first question I had for all of them was like, Oh, what do you do for a living? Cause it's so important to us. in the And they were shocked and they were offended. They're like, why is he asking us what we do for a living? That's not who we are. We're just, anyway, I was

Paul: 10:24

Don't ask about the family business! But then I think the other thing is like neurodiversity, right? I talk about it a lot to a lot of people and I do think that there are Extremes of our society that are driven by a poor understanding when we were younger, which is probably now being remedied somewhat. But when I was a kid in the 1980s, nobody, you couldn't choose to be ADHD, right? It wasn't a thing that you could have, right? So you were either a kid that misbehaved, Or hard to work with kid or a disruptive child. And we, satisfaction levels are set up here compared to your average neurotypical person having a satisfaction level down here. And I do wonder, like as much with prisons as with. Like actors and celebrities, they chase that endorphin rush and dopamine hit. And part of me wonders like how many celebrities would be ADHD or neurodiverse and have chased that dopamine hit to get to that level and have to keep hitting that. And that is tiring. When you do get that hit, it's tiring still. There's a lot of pressure on your body. Does that then contribute as much their side as it does to the people who've ended up in prison because they've become substance abuse and alcohol abuse because they're chasing the dopamine and endorphin rush? That's totally outside the scope of this episode, but I do it was, part of me wonders what we're going to see in 40 years time when my son grows up in an era where we accept neurodiversity and we help people, deal with it properly, as opposed to just telling you're a naughty kid.

Adrian: 11:57

I think we'll find that as we accept it and we deal with it properly, society will start to move away from the idea that fame is an important thing. Most people don't have any level of fame. They don't walk down the street or go to a restaurant, for example, and people walk up to them. I'll never forget, I was in a restaurant with Billy Bob Thornton, the actor, and people would, lined up. A single file line while we were eating dinner to say hi and how much they love his acting and his work. Now, imagine if you're seeking that dopamine hit, and then you're like, okay, I'm done. I'm depleted. I'm going to go out and have dinner. And then suddenly you're getting hit constantly with more with that you're not even trying for. That's celebrity. That's just, it's just impossible to go anywhere or do anything without that attack of, on your brain dopamine. It's just crazy.

Paul: 12:44

Let's, it's a marketing podcast, I want to move let's tear ourselves away from that, cause it's probably a whole other episode on its own as fascinating as it is. Hollywood storytelling techniques combined with good salt life. So how do you apply those same techniques and principles that you learned back in the day in a marketing angle now?

Adrian: 13:03

There's several ways to do it, but I think the one I'll focus on for today's podcast is structure. So when we think about the storytelling, the structure of storytelling in Hollywood, let's say it's a movie. People typically think of movies when they think of structure as three acts. You have a beginning, the middle and end. Usually the middle is the longest act. The third act is the recall of the first, first act. And it's answering the questions that come up in the first act and resolving the problems, right? But really what Hollywood movies and also television television is technically five acts, but these are all 12 act structures. And what I mean by that is they're all part of the hero's journey, which is a structure that was discovered by Joseph Campbell. For those who probably, everyone's probably heard of Joseph Campbell by now, but. Deep diving deep into mythologies and not just Joseph Campbell, some people that preceded him as well. And they discovered that throughout history. From the ancient times to now, there is this sort of prevailing structure around how humans tell stories, and he called it, he dubbed it the hero's journey, and it's a 12 act structure that your most popular movies and books and everything adhere to, whether the authors or writers knew what they were doing or not. That 12 act structure is a circle. The hero starts. Going about his or her daily normal routine and something pulls them into this journey and then they go along this whole journey all the way down to the abyss where they have to defeat the monster or the dragon or what have you and then come back changed and then they're a new person at the end of the story. That same structure is also, it turns out, and this is where I immediately connected when I entered the marketing world with oh, I already know this stuff to some degree. It connects with, it's the same as the customer journey the customer journey is the hero's journey. It's just five accents instead of 12. So that, the first place to start, and how you tell stories in Hollywood is basically the same way you're gonna tell stories in marketing, it's a little truncated, but it's basically the same. And the key here is. In marketing, it's more of an interactive story. It's not passive. So as a brand, a product, a service, whatever you're selling, essentially, you have to understand where you come in that customer's journey. So thinking about from the hero's journey example are you the wise old wizard Gandalf who's going to lead the hobbits on this journey and hold their hand the whole way? Are you Obi Wan Kenobi leading Luke Skywalker on the whole, journey? Or are you just selling the sword or the lightsaber that they're going to need? To defeat Darth Vader or the dragon Smaug, So you have to understand where your product, your service, your brand comes in on their journey, and then drill down on that. So understanding the customer journey is the first thing you have to know as a marketer and obviously understanding your customers is the first thing you have to know, but the second is their journey and the structure of that journey and how you structure your marketing content is very similar to what we did in Hollywood storytelling.

Paul: 15:56

that is Easily the best analogy that we've had on the show for a customer journey. I love it. I love it I want to be and now that you've said it I really want to be or be one There is no doubt about it.

Adrian: 16:09

Yeah, me too.

Paul: 16:10

But then to take that one step further, you also combine elements of understanding data and neuroscience with that as well. So where does that sit in that customer journey?

Adrian: 16:18

Now we're going down that rabbit hole, man. Here we go. So let's say that the customer is going along in their life and everything is normal and they are going to fall into this journey, right? There's two ways it happens. They either are forced into the journey. In our business, at Good Salt Life, we manufacture clean living products, disinfectants, cleaners, things for your home, your house, your skin, et cetera. During COVID. Everybody was forced into that journey. They needed to start disinfecting. We had to wipe our hands, wash our hands. We had to wash our food, everything. That's one way to get into the journey. The other way is to be pulled into the journey by someone like the wizard who pulls you into that journey. And so if you think about Luke Skywalker, he wasn't going to take the journey with Obi Wan. But then his aunt and uncle his means of life were murdered and he had no choice. And then he learns along the way he has this destiny and he comes from a long lineage of Jedi's, et cetera. So thinking about the customer, what causes them to go on the journey? And that goes all the way back to basically brain science. And this is where it gets deep. And this is where I've been focused on the last two years of my life because I just love it so much. It's something that I initially learned at Stanford's graduate school of business and a program I was in there. And then really it got supercharged by a guy named Rob Duboff. He's a professor at Harvard. I was at Harvard and graduated recently with a master's. And Rob teaches a strategic decision making class that utilizes a book by the author Daniel Kahneman called Thinking Fast and Slow. And it's all about how the

Paul: 17:53

is a dry book

Adrian: 17:54

and it's all about how you. Yeah, it's a great, yeah, it's a great, it's a great read. And it's the first half is hard because it's all really detailed about how the brain works. But when you get into understanding that there's two systems in the brain and the first system is a system, one they call it is your, is basically your autonomy, like it's 90, it makes 90 percent of the decisions for you and you don't even know you're making decisions, and it's your mammalian part of your brain, it's your gut feeling, it's your fight or flight reaction, it's those things that you just. Can't describe. System two is your data processing system. And so it, it then comes in secondarily and looks at what you're trying to make a decision on and thinks through the data. So when you're thinking about the customer journey and you're like what's going to cause them to go on this journey? A lot of it is a decision that they have to make. And so understanding how their brain works to make that decision will then tell you as a marketer, how do I appeal to that to those brain systems to cause them to click, engage, call, go to the, whatever the action is you're trying to get them to take. And so what it turns out is you have to appeal to their emotional side first and then bring in the data. So marketers who lead with data, our product is nine times better than blah, blah, blah, or 15 times faster. The brain doesn't, It doesn't want to, it ignores that because you haven't appealed to them emotionally first. You have to connect them emotionally for the system one to work and then it'll go to system two. You bring in data secondarily. So once I understood that, that changed the game for how we create content, how we create our messaging. In some cases, maybe we don't even get to system two because it's not necessary. So on and so forth. So I think that's in the zone of what you're asking, but

Paul: 19:35

It's again, it's a, whole episode on its own, right? Like it's a whole series on its own not just an episode. And I've got a deep love for behavioral science specifically because it's just, it influences everything that we do. Yeah, I think there's so much power with behavioral science that if you're not paying attention to even the principles of it, you're missing out on so much power. But as I was saying to somebody that I was networking with earlier on, he was a behavioral scientist. It's a slippery slope for the dark side of behavioral science too, right? There's a big ethical concern around it, and you've got to be careful to stay on the influencing positively as opposed to manipulating negatively, and It's definitely something that I would encourage business owners to look into, but if you're gonna do it, work with an expert or Get really deep in the knowledge because there are so many unintended, and I think that's the power of it, is the unintended consequences of any one behavioral science principle this

Adrian: 21:05

I'll never forget. There was an election years ago. It was John McCain in America was running for president against Barack Obama, and there was all these ads about how Barack Obama was a terrorist and all these crazy, stupid things, and they were running those ads to change. I'm not changing behavior, but to influence the John McCain's audience to vote for John over Barack Obama. And I'll never forget there was a, an engagement where John is speaking to a large audience and then it got to the Q& A and some guy raises his hands and he says, what are we going to do? Barack Obama is a terrorist. He can't be elected president because then all the terrorists are going to take over America and it was just mayhem. And you could see in John McCain's face was like, oops. We went a little too far with our ads because this guy actually

Paul: 21:52

be where we are.

Adrian: 21:53

No, man, it's crazy. Yeah. Taking Pollock, like the sides out of it, just the idea that you're going to be influence people's behaviors, influence their decisions and their minds. It's like you said, it's, be careful with that kind of power because it's not hard to do. It's happening all the time from all around us. One of the things I don't know when I get into this, one of the things I've started going, like I started going deeper than behavior and into physiology and biology and looking at how like we create marketing assets, video content, picture content, text, whatever it is. And the person that we're selling to has to perceive that asset. So there, there's a perception. I learned recently, I didn't know this. There is no perception that happens that isn't preceded by an action, which I didn't know. So that means if I'm looking at this marketing picture. I'm not passively looking at it. There are all these physical actions that are happening at the same time and that happened before I looked at it and are going to happen after. For example, your eyeballs are always moving, right? If they stop moving, even though you don't feel it, if they stop moving, you can't see the picture. Everything goes out of focus. Understanding that there are these physiology, physiological activities within your body. That are happening as you perceive something, how can we, this sounds crazy, but how can we leverage that information and that knowledge to then get a greater click through rate or whatever that action is that we want the audience to take? How do we, maybe that those 40. Physiological actions that are happening before they click, maybe there's a way we can leverage that with the image that we show will lead to more clicks. I don't know. It gets a little scary and talk about power, then you get really crazy, but that's where I'm going down that rabbit hole these days.

Paul: 23:37

But it's fascinating, right? And it's clear that you're super passionate about it. And going back to what we were talking about before, you're chasing that passion, which is fantastic to see. Because there are so many people, I don't have a problem with corporations, right? Like corporations are what they are and corporate life is, it's great for some people and it's not great for other people. And I had to get out because it wasn't fulfilling me. And now that I'm doing what I'm doing, I feel the difference. And I wish I'd gotten out earlier. But I know that I needed to go through it to get where I am now. So I don't regret do, but I don't regret anything. But I just wish I'd done things quicker. But it's fantastic to meet somebody who's. Like you've got that self awareness that you needed to do something different. You're brave enough to take that step. And I think there'd probably be a lot of people in the audience who watching the episode, who nodding along going, yeah, I've been through that. Like I'm there now or whatever. So take this the way it's meant to be. I guess then bringing it back to the. Marketing a little bit more as well is, we ask all our guests and with your unique perspective on this, I'm interested to see where this might go is what is one marketing practice or strategy or tactic that you wish business owners would just stop using? Maybe it's outdated, maybe it never worked, maybe it's claimed to work and doesn't what is it that you see just grinds your gears?

Adrian: 25:01

It's funny you say that because I was promoted to the CEO position a few months back. And as soon as I was, my LinkedIn just blew up with AI written, messages. So I wish they would stop that. That'd be one thing. Cause I don't know that brings any ROI. I, there was a company here in Colorado we use that did bring us some ROI with a LinkedIn outreach campaign. But in general, they, I don't think those work. And and also that's that it's that tactic of throw. Stuff against the wall and see what sticks. And you can feel that in the message when it comes through. Oh, AI wrote this. The person didn't even review it. And the script went out and in two days, I'm going to get the next one. And I already know what it's going to say. Cause I got 50 of them yesterday. It's getting saturated. So that's one thing I think these LinkedIn outreach campaigns, but in general, I think I think that we still have a lot. So I think a lot of marketing professionals are specialists. And they have a great career out of specializing in digital marketing, SEO, whatever it is, right? And I think I would love to see more marketing people become, at least partially become generalists, understand the greater business. I've worked and built marketing teams where they. A lot of folks be brilliant at what they do. They never understood the larger business. How does the larger business make money? What is our larger business? And do I actually align with that in my values and what have you? And that's, they're really hyper focused on that one lever that they pull, which I understand. It makes them money and they have, they can survive and have a family and whatever. But I think having just more of an open mindset and thinking larger is something I'd like to see more. So it's not something I want to say, it's That marketers should stop doing, but I think that expanding their vision of the business and of the marketing discipline and, like what you and I've done, maybe not make a career change, but dive into something you don't know anything about and be willing to say, I know, raise your hand. I know nothing about this. I want to learn. I think most people don't have the

Paul: 26:59

I think that's where actually, people talk about people talk about AI a lot and they talk about the impacts and the jobs that are going to be lost by it. But I actually think that we're going to see a transition over the coming years where People with more and more rare skill sets that traditionally don't lend themselves towards a particular career like marketing. Can now get involved with it because AI is leveling the playing field somewhat to enable those people and democratizing it, but is also allowing them to combine their unique skillset, which was traditionally not par for the course and create new concoctions and combinations of skills that we've never seen before, which is going to be fascinating. I think there's some real, there's some real positives to take out of it. And it's interesting what you said about the the messaging is. I'm a big believer that you shouldn't be letting an AI write your messages to go out to anywhere. I, it does a terrible job, even if you think it's better than what you already write. You're better off writing what you know, than letting the AI write it for you. At the very least, put your own spin over the top of it, if you're going to do it, right?

Paul 2: 28:10

so yeah I sent out an automated message the other day. It was, Written by me, and I'm a big advocate of don't let chatGPT write your messages for you, right? Like it should never be don't do it. Just don't do it. But that being said, it's quite good for getting ideas and creating the basics, but put your own spin on the top of it, please. I write mine by hand. I can't de chatGPT it enough. I still hear it in my head, and I sent out this message to people who I've met over the last six months or so. Connected with them on LinkedIn, but I haven't really had much to do with them and I just sent it out. I was like, look, I'm gonna call out. This is an automated message. It is a human here. I'm just trying to see who's actually interested to have a conversation, who's interested in networking, who might be interested in my content? Here's what my content does. It's on my profile. I don't need to send you it. It's there. You can go and have a look yourself if you're this sort of person or this sort of person might be interesting. If you are interested, I'll do a weekly newsletter, I'm not going to send you the link, unless you ask for it. If you ask for it, I will send you it. I ran this for about three hours, and sent it to a bunch of people. And one of the first people that came back to me said What, and this isn't spammy? I was like no, cause to spam someone, I have to send

Adrian: 29:22

Yeah, like 20 of

Paul 2: 29:24

message, I'm not selling anything, I'm just, Being a human. So I was quite deflated by this point. And then about two hours later, I checked back in and I had four messages. I kid you not, four messages. And every single one of them said a variation of, wow, I love the humanity in this message. And this is easily the most human automated message I've ever had. Thank you so much. Let's connect. Let's grab a chat. So to caveat what you said, automate your messaging if you're not selling things. But if you're selling something, we have that built in. We absolutely have that built in.

Adrian: 29:59

we have a built in like block to that. And don't, yeah, like I said, don't get me wrong. It's not that LinkedIn outreach doesn't work. It does, but it has to be the right way. Also, you have something you're offering that, what your quote unquote selling is something that appeals to the, It's something that my brain goes, Ooh, do I want to be on a podcast? Of course I do. I want to, whatever. So that's not everything that you guys work with, but it is still a, something that is appealing. It's a gift. You're giving them a gift, then saying, let's talk, so that makes more sense. I can't tell you how many I get, which is like. We have a solution for your automation. I don't have any automation problems. I don't have no automation. So it's whatever it is that they have a solution for it. It's definitely AI.

Paul 2: 30:40

selling me a challenge that I haven't even diagnosed I have. So why would I care?

Adrian: 30:44

Yeah.

Paul 2: 30:45

Yeah. absolutely. Absolutely. Adrian, it has been an absolute pleasure speaking to you despite the technical challenges that we've had during and before and after the episode, but I've no doubt fingers crossed this episode goes live cause I really love the genuine nature of the episode that we've recorded, but thank you so much for being a fantastic guest on the show. If people have enjoyed the episode, how can they find out more?

Adrian: 31:07

Oh they can go to goodsaltlife. com and check out our company. There'll be some information there. If they want to learn just about me for some crazy reason, they can find me on LinkedIn just put my name in the search and you'll find me.

Paul 2: 31:20

Perfect. And I'll make sure those links are in the show notes as well. So if anybody wants to do a bit more research, you can. And thank you, watchers, listeners, viewers along at home. Thank you for making the show what it is. We don't do this if it's not for you. I'm pleased that so many of you reaching out and letting us know that you've had some good experiences as a result of watching the show. If you've got any ideas for guests who might be a good fit for the show, or you want us to cover some specific topics, you want us to interview specific Influencers or heroes in certain areas that are more than happy to line those up. Drop me a line Let me know and I will see you next week. Thank you. Bye. Bye