Paul: 0:29

Good afternoon and welcome to this week's episode of MarketPulse Pros and Pioneers. And I'm absolutely over the moon to welcome a good friend of mine, Clayton Drotsky, to the show. Good afternoon, Clayton. All right.

Clayton: 0:40

Paul, how's it going? Yeah, I'm good to be here. Happy to be here, happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me on.

Paul: 0:44

I know you're laughing cause I had to check what time of day it was. I have literally no idea what time of day it is at the

Clayton: 0:49

You had me there.

Paul: 0:50

through

Clayton: 0:51

Yeah, I was the same. I was thinking, what is it?

Paul: 0:53

so anybody who doesn't know Clayton, a bit of his background is he's the founder and director at Growth Crew Limited who are dedicated to empowering emerging leaders and transforming leadership potential into impactful success. So thinking about those mid level leaders upwards more senior of the junior leaders around that area. He's got 16 years of hands on leadership experience across global contact centers, and he's worked hard at the art of creating inclusive, engaging environments that inspire teams and retain top talent. And I can tell you, as somebody who spent 15 years in leadership, almost every post that Clayton puts out, I absolutely resonate with. So I can vouch firsthand for the values that he exposed. He's now a leadership mentor and he works with future leaders and high potential individuals to help them uncover their unique leadership strengths. And his mentorship also focuses on developing leaders who magnetically attract and inspire others, which is important. I was always told that you're not a leader until you've raised a leader who's raised a leader. And I think that's important to be able to help people with that. It's such a rewarding journey to be on. Tailored coaching, innovative challenges, Clayton helps guide the next generation of leaders to unlock their potential, overcome their self doubt, that's a big one, and step confidently into their rules. His unique approach blends real world experience with practical insights. And giving the leaders the tools that they need to thrive on their own. So there's a lot to consume there. There's a lot to boil down. And obviously the point of this show Glinton, just to bring it back a little bit is about showcasing some of the people that are around in the audience that, that kind of need to have their voice expanded. That's great. And also talking about some of the challenges and successes around marketing, because I know. We were talking about this before the show this year more than ever is a really tough year in the UK, especially in terms of financial economy. That there's a lot going on. There's a lot of challenges that businesses are coming up against. So we're going to get into some of that as well as we go through things. But, you've spent 17 years in contact centers. Could you just rewind back a little bit and tell us a little bit about your experience and your approach to leadership?

Clayton: 3:06

Yeah, for sure. So I and thanks Paul, very kind of you for your introduction. I as no one ever has put their hand up at school and said, one day I want to work in a contact center. I didn't either, but I needed money for beer. And like most of us do at the young age of 25. And I just got back to South Africa from England. I did the old thing that every South African does when they were young in the early two thousands, work and live in the pub and went back home and then needed a job. So going to the contact center, luckily for me, I. I grew quite quickly, I was recognized for some reason, and before I knew it, I was managing a whole bunch of people. But, I was doing so many things wrong, because I had no idea, to be honest, what I was doing. I made a lot of mistakes, probably for 6 to 10 months. To give you an example of what I did, is, I was elevated from a team leader level, managing like 20 odd people, to the manager of the call center. And I had my own desk that I had to go sit at, but I never went and sat there. I sat, still remained in my old desk for three months and I, I was just scared of going to sit there and I was trying to be someone I was not. So I was trying to, I was doing things like I wanted everybody to like me. So I would do everything for everybody. I would never say no, which kept me at work for long hours, but because people could see that this is what I was doing, they would just ask me for stuff and I'll always say yes. But another reason I was doing everything for everybody was because I was hiding the fact that I wasn't. I didn't want them to see that I didn't know what I was doing. So if I did it in private, in my own time, then no one would see that I had no idea what I was doing. So all these leadership mistakes I was making and plenty, plenty more, I can keep you going for a long time. But then, and so important for all of us is I, luckily for me, I find a mentor who worked at our office, who came in and basically showed me what leadership looked like. Something that I hadn't looked at, something that I didn't think of before. And I remember the very first day she got there, she called me into her office and the culture in South Africa back in those days was very hierarchical. We would leaders were to be seen, not to be spoken to. And not everybody, but that was like a culture. And she came in the first day and she took all the walls down and put glass so we could all see her. And that was like day one. She called me to her office and we had a two hour meeting. When she called me to her office, I was thinking to myself, Oh, here we go. What have I done? This is me now. I'm done. Because you don't normally go to those offices, but she called me in and we had a two hour discussion and she wanted to just know about me. And she wants to, she was really interested, but genuinely interested, not just pretending. And she basically showed me the game plan of what was in her mind. And what I thought of that, what I thought about it. She took my opinions to heart. Actually we implemented some of the things that I was telling her. And she basically told me, Clayton, this is then our plan, and big word, our plan, and this is your part of that plan. it cost her zero money to get the best out of me, cause, about two or three months later, I realized I was working harder than ever before. And the reason I was doing it was because I didn't want to disappoint this person that believed in me so much without knowing me from a bar of soap. And it cost her nothing but time and effort, a little bit of time, a little bit of effort to make me feel really good about myself, find joy in what I was doing, find that what I was doing actually mattered to other people, and in return for that, it was meaningful to me. So when I found joy and satisfaction in what I was doing, I naturally excelled at it. I enjoyed it more. And then I thought to myself that was so simple what she did, why can't I do that to my team leaders? At the time, I had eight team leaders. Why can't I do that to my team leaders? And what we did. My team leaders were incredible people and they did it to their agents and so on and so forth. And yeah, we became a really close knit family. I and I was lucky, I was fortunate enough to go to other places in the world and do the same thing, but it was just, that's my view on leadership is that we so often overthink it, that we're looking for the silver bullet. But when I work with the customers I work with now, and you'll know this, Paul, from your head, from your career is that people stand in their own way. At the end of the day, no matter what it is. If it's doubt, if it's trying to impress people, whatever it may be, not avoiding confrontation, avoiding meetings with your team. It's all because you're standing in your own way. And I just help them get to the bottom of why they're doing that. And then we figure it out.

Paul: 7:20

And it's super painful to learn those lessons in the first place, but as people who've learned those lessons, the hardware, like that then gives you the toolkit needed to be able to know how to navigate those painful times again and again, and make them easier each time. I love what you're doing. So then growth crew, tell me about what growth crew is about and what do you guys specialize in?

Clayton: 7:41

Yeah. It's been two and a half years now. I'm just over two and a half years of growth crew and I've made lots of mistakes. Thousands. I've tried different things. I've chased a shiny object. I've paid a lot of money for things that I should probably not have paid for, but I I've found where my sweet spot is, and that's with high potential future leaders. I do a mentorship program where I do one to one coaching with up and coming leaders that their companies want to invest in, that senior leaders want to invest in, that they see people that will take over from them one day. Basically like a senior leader's retirement plan. And I walk a path with those leaders usually it's a 90 day program but it's, I'm very flexible in terms of what's needed at the time. And, they do an assess, people do an assessment with me in the beginning, so I get to know their challenges, how they see themselves. Where they'd like to be. And then, the magic happens in those one to one sessions. And that's where, after the 90 days yeah it's you get lots of compliments, which is what makes, which one makes me come back, but that's what I live for is those moments when you're with someone and you can see it hits their face and they go, And you're like, cause they're coming up, they're understanding where they're standing in their own way. They're coming up with solutions and they're adapting to, they're adapting mindsets that they was always there, but through something else wasn't coming to the surface. So yeah, that's that's what I did.

Paul: 9:01

I love that, that there's that reward at the end of things because I think to be a natural leader, you have to take pleasure from seeing other people succeed and seeing other people become the rock stars. And you almost have to make yourself fade into the background, right? So it's yeah, you're the superstar. here to help showcase you to your peers, to your colleagues. I love that. Again like we were saying before the show this year has been super tough and I know having worked in the contact center industry, call centers, contact centers, whether that's business process outsourcing, whether it's brands that have their own call centers, it's a super tough market to start with, right? People, ironically, people who work in call centers don't want to pick up the phone to answer call calls. They don't have access to email a lot of the time, or if they do, it's just For those people who are listening, who perhaps have a small business like yourself, who are reaching into quite hard to reach niches, what are some of the things that have worked for you in terms of building your current customer base, your pipeline? What's worked? Is it networking? Is it word of mouth? Is it referrals? How does it work for you?

Clayton: 10:12

Yeah. So it's been a case of trying all different types of situations all different types of methods I've never done cold emailing. It's something that I haven't really focused on. Most of my most of my AdBank try, AdBank activity is on LinkedIn. I've done a lot of networking, but on LinkedIn, what I would do is I have a couple of lead magnets that I've made them really powerful in terms of delivery, the value for what you get out of it. It's absolutely free, but what you get out of it is massive. And I have I then tried all different things. I would send video messages to connections on LinkedIn. I would send direct messages. It's the whole thing about building a relationship on LinkedIn to try to get in some way. And, it's difficult because on the one hand, you want to come, you want to come across as someone who genuinely wants to help. That's what I want to do. I genuinely want to help you and your team. And it's the gurus would tell you that you need to build relationships because people buy from people and it's believable. Of course it is. So you reach out, you make relationships, but at the end of the day, you also have a business to run. And you see a lot of advertisements on LinkedIn, on Instagram, where there's no relationship built. And there's a lot of content that's out there that's just in your face. That's uncomfortable for me to do, but I sometimes wonder myself, like, where do you draw the line of sending cold emails? And where do you eventually say, this relationship stuff is great, but wow, it's slow burning. Because, you as a business owner, and you'll know, Paul, you just want to jump in. You've got, you've taken a big risk leaving the comforts of gainful employment and you were used to a certain salary, you were used to a certain lifestyle and you leave that lifestyle knowing that you're going to lose it. There's a lot of pain coming. You're aware of it. You've made the decision, but you know that at the end of the day, you're doing something that's more meaningful for you. You're going to reach more people. And ultimately the goal is that this will be more fruitful than any employment would ever be in the future, but hell, getting there is very hard, I look at people who I'm very good friends with on LinkedIn and I've built relationships with on LinkedIn. They do very similar things to what I do. And I see them with businesses for 15 years. And it's so impressive that they've got that far as an entrepreneur and still doing it because Yeah, it is not for the faint hearted, that's for sure.

Paul: 13:08

Yeah, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I resonate with so much that you've said. And for anybody who doesn't know me, go and have a look at my LinkedIn profile, right? I came from retail. from retail. When I stepped out of that world, I had to have B2B explained to me and it still took, it took weeks for me to really understand what B2B meant. It just didn't compute. I've found center world and BPO world to be unlike any other industry I've ever had to approach. And it's so niche. Such a friendly community, such great community. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody's connected to everybody, but it also makes it super hard to break into. And I think you do from what I see on LinkedIn, I think you do a fantastic job of that balancing act of I'm here to provide value and you provide value first and foremost to build that trust. I see you doing video. I see you doing, your text based posts and there's a good mix of content on there. Honestly I've done that, that email side of things for that world it becomes a numbers game. And I see this a lot. And I was talking to a good friend of mine about this the other day is I see that actually marketing companies, marketing agencies, marketing departments, marketing managers, all create a rod for their own backs as do salespeople in that we look at the pipeline as being. a function of the end result, right? So everybody says work backwards from what you want to achieve. So you know how much revenue you want to achieve. how likely you are to convert someone who gets to that final stage, that end stage. So we know how many of them we need to have, but to get so many of them, we need to have so many of the next stage lead. And then, so that means we need to engage this many people. All right. If I want to double my revenue, I've got to double the amount of leads that go in at the beginning. And we rapidly end, the only answer to doubling all those leads is that you have to automate things, you have to mass produce things, which removes that personalised element. And I've been down this route, like I hated it, and I had to do it because it had to be tested out, I had to prove that it didn't work. And it can work, and it can work in some industries, it can work some products and services, it can work tremendously well. I've no doubt there are experts out there who are called email experts, called call experts, who do tremendously well. But the thing that holds people, everybody back is that we now in this day and age can see through that non personalized content. And I don't mean, oh, I see that you live in the same country as me, so therefore we must connect. I get these all the time now, right? I had one this morning. What was it? Oh, I love that you have a podcast. Let me tell you how I help podcasters. I'm guessing reached out to anybody who has a podcast. That's not really talking to me like, yeah, I can see through you. and an instant distrust, right? distrust, it really hard. So now more than ever, I think now is the time to be doubling down on building those relationships. And it is, you're right. It's if anybody else is out there listening to this, who's running their own small business, I'm sure they're all smiling and nodding away because, yeah, I've tried that as well. And yeah, this is tough and building relationships does take time.

Clayton: 16:08

Yeah. And it's you have to stick to it, it's so easy to chase the shiny objects. But I guess you have to stick to it. And it's a slow burner, but It's like you said, before we went on air, is that, got that feeling that it might all happen at the same time. Because you work hard on these relationships, and you follow up with people, and you ask, you, you keep the flame burning between you and them. And I just sometimes think back to myself, and this is, Probably one of the mistakes I've made with my marketing is probably using my own biases to think what people think about when they think of buying the, buying what I offer. And that's taken me a long time, probably longer than probably still deal with it now, but it's taken me a hell of a long time to try and get into the brains of my potential customer. Cause I think to myself, when I was leading a call center, the last thing I wanted to do was air my dirty laundry to some. Some guy that I don't even know and what's he gonna do, so there's that mentality. I'm sure that's out there, but yes, my own biases in my marketing has probably done me a lot worse. Then it probably would probably should have.

Paul: 17:14

I'd go one step further because I'm ADHD, I tend to overthink things, and I, to your point, I run everything through would I, how would I respond to receiving this? And sometimes I've sat there with a message that I'm about to write to someone, manually write a message, and I've gone, oh, they're going to see straight through this, they're going to know that my end goal is to have a business conversation. And like you, I approach everybody. I'm curious. I do genuinely want to help people, but there are, they are business conversations. and then I've gone and sent a message and they come back and go, Oh yeah, let's chat. And I sat there and thought, totally overthought that. I could have sent that 20 minutes ago if I hadn't just people tend not to think like me because that's why they're not doing what I do. They're doing their job and I'm doing my job. They don't think like me and stop second guessing what they're thinking. You touched on some earlier on what are the most common leadership barriers that you see where people are getting in their own way? And how can they start to resolve them?

Clayton: 18:06

One of the ones I see very often, especially with the audience that I have. So those are the leaders that are, have been identified as future stars. And very often they get in their own way by Wanting to be as knowledgeable as the person who's been there for 20 years. They immediately want to get everything right. They, and for that reason, they don't speak up. They almost get into a shell, like a fixed mindset. If I don't accept the challenge, then I won't lose, vibes. We're setting them free from that kind of mindset is really digging down into the beginner's mentality. The learning mindset to say that I am young or I am emerging. I am inexperienced as a leader. I'm never going to feel like I'm always in control. I am going to make mistakes. I'm going to say the wrong things. But hell, if I don't know something, I am going to find out how to do it. I'm going to learn. So it's an exciting journey. Because when you adapt that mentality you go into things a lot more calm and comfortable. You go into meetings without, instead of having the fear of saying something stupid, therefore not saying anything. is you say something because your intention is you're asking this question or you're saying this thing because you want what's best for your team, the company, and the customer. So therefore you can't lose, if you have the mentality that I'm learning, I'm a beginner's mentality, even if you do say something wrong and the senior person in that meeting rectifies you, that's fine because deep down, your intention was to, is the best for everyone. And that's sets people free. When you see the young leaders I work with, when they go. That's fantastic, because then they actually become themselves. And I think back to myself, when I was there, I was the same. You'd be in a meeting with a senior leader, like maybe a one on one, and you think to yourself, how do they know so much? Why don't I know that? And you get, you're so hard on yourself. And then you get yourself down, and your thoughts run away with you, and, they trigger emotions, and they don't serve you. And you basically talk yourself, Andre Agassi in his book, He spoke about when you play tennis, you play against an opponent. That's obvious for everyone to see. But he said that you actually play against yourself because throughout the match, you are talking yourself into a win and you're talking yourself into a loss. And if you're a leader, like a young leader, like I just explained, and you think to yourself, when am I ever going to know that I'm not good enough? I shouldn't be, I'm a fraud. You're talking yourself into a loss. And for that reason, you're not going to go anywhere fast. You're going to just stay stagnant. You're going to get that fixed mentality where you don't accept anything from anybody. You don't want to, you just want to coast through it and pretend to know it, to pretend to be someone you're not. So yeah, set them free by adapting the beginner's mentality.

Paul: 20:45

I think I've actually seen quite a lot of the opposite of that as well, where people feel the need to say something because it's expected or they feel like it's expected of them because I'm going to be a future leader. I need to have a say on this, whether I've got something useful to see or not. And they almost have to make things up. interject where, and everybody, you can see everybody rolling their eyes in the meeting oh, really? Again? That's the opposite problem, right? Like it's, it stems from the same thing though.

Clayton: 21:10

Yeah. It's the same mentality. It's the same. I've got to say something, even if it's something just because it's probably expected of me. So they're running away. They, again, their thoughts are running away with them that People are not looking at them. The pressure's on them. They're the boss. They need to say something. That's not the case. Very often with the young leaders I work with, we talk about, we spend a lot of time on team meetings and what team meetings are for and how often should they happen. And very often they feel like they're inconveniencing their team or whatever it may be. But sometimes by breaking the ice, it doesn't have to be every meeting, but every second or third meeting, you can start the meeting by saying, Hey guys let's share our mistakes this week. Mine are XYZ, and you're opening up. So as a leader, you just you start realizing that. You have the opportunity to change someone's life as a leader, good or bad. And if you're a good leader, you can really set someone up for the rest of their life. And that's what I always say is aim for that 20 years from now. Someone's going to say, man, if it wasn't for Clayton back in 2001, I wouldn't be where I am today. You'll never know if that happens, but aim for that. And when you know, when they start realizing that they, that great leaders inspire other people to do great things. I can do that. It becomes very rewarding and very satisfying for them. There's a much bigger purpose. And then you see them doing things that they wouldn't have ordinarily done before because they feel free of it. They, their shackles are off and they feel like they can do it because if they make mistakes, they were trying something new or they were trying, their intentions were not For that to happen. So that's nice.

Paul: 22:40

There's so many positives to take from the conversation and so many things for people to go and digest. Think to bring it back to marketing once again then you obviously, the same as I will as the owner of your own business, you'll get marketed to quite a bit, right? In terms of your experience what's one thing that you wish other business owners would stop trying to do in order to reach you? Like when you're being marketed to, what's your pet here?

Clayton: 23:02

My pet hate is probably when they try to summarize me in their first initial contact, they think they know me. And that's, I think it's always a bit invasive. It's what are you don't know me. They and they don't do homework. Sometimes it's just a little bit. I know it takes longer when you do homework. I always do a bit of homework and personalization. It takes me a lot longer. I'm not saying it works. I'm not saying that it's the best thing since sliced bread, but the other day I got a DM on LinkedIn about if I needed help with my menopause. And I was, I'm so sorry that they wasted money. I hope there wasn't a LinkedIn ad, because they've wasted money. But then you get the people that would say to you Clayton that da, people like you, if they do this, they get that, and I can give you seven figures in three months, and you're thinking okay, that's why isn't, why are you still asking me if you've got, if you can do this yourself?

Paul: 23:54

Yeah, I saw someone the other day who had messaged into an inbox of a friend of mine to tell them about the new video messaging tool they could use to reach people on LinkedIn by sending these video messages. Yeah? So why are you sending me a text based message then? If your tool's so great does it work? Does it really work? Or are you just trying to sell thin air? Yeah, I, I agree. It's where you I tend to have I have a private se look, everybody's got bills to pay. get it. It goes back to what I was saying about inflating that, that And the figures that you need at the beginning of it. So the only possible alternative is mass volume, right? It's not the case. Like you don't need to take that approach. Not everybody you approach needs to be a lead or a prospect. I'm a big fan of, if you create the content, can point people to the content with the automation. If you want to use automation, that's what you do. Look, I might be helpful for you. Come and have a look at my content. Content does the selling. I'm not here to do any selling in your inbox. Genuine. But alternatively. The question becomes, rather than increase the amount of leads that I'm putting in at the top, the prospects I'm putting in at the top end that I'm trying to reach, what if I just spend the time finding the right people, researching them well enough, and being genuinely curious enough that I have a higher conversion rate on my messages? I do that, then I don't need to reach so many people, and I can do it manually, which means I can be genuine, which means everybody will appreciate it. still get told to sod off. That's you've got to have thick skin if you want to do sales development in any way, shape or form, right? I've been told to sod off more than my fair share of times.

Clayton: 25:22

Yeah,

Paul: 25:22

solution, is it's not, to your point exactly I've tried. I've tried volume, I've tried automation. It's awful. I've stopped because it just doesn't work. on the flip side of that What's your way right now of marketing your business? What works, you've mentioned lead magnets. I see you doing webinars. I've seen you doing workshops. What's your favorite way? Not necessarily the most successful, but what do you enjoy the most marketing your business?

Clayton: 25:49

I think it's probably my lead banger because I feel like people have a chance to experience what I can do and then make a very good judgment call from there. So with my lead magnet, I go above and beyond of what's expected, people expect something small, but they what they're really getting is incredible value. And at the end of it, hopefully a lot of personal development. So the feedback I've received from my Lead Magnets is really good. And I really, I'm proud of that. So sometimes maybe to my own detriment, I do a lot of work on the Lead Magnets. When someone's, when they, when the customer's in the Lead Magnet, I go above and beyond. And if there was more volume, I would probably not be able to do that personalization. But yeah, I enjoy that. I enjoy that. The masterclasses and the workshops, yeah, those are tough. And you've got to have a very thick skin with some of those, some of those, you do so much marketing around them. You have so many people say they're coming, you have so many people register, you remind them 24 hours, 2 hours, 1 hour, 15 minutes, and then 2 people show up and 500 said I'm coming, it's and you've got to eat that time, and that is a tough one, that's a tough skin, that, and the 2 people that came were friends. So they're not going to buy from you. They just came because they got better to do. Yeah.

Paul: 27:06

did a masterclass type webinar and I did it myself. Nobody turned up and I did it for the content cause I knew I could chop the content. Like at the very least I could record, chop the content up and the guy turned up after 25 minutes and stayed for the whole thing. like, Oh, do you know what it didn't turn into a prospect, didn't turn into a client, but I just thought, you know what, I'm pleased to carry it on going now, cause that guy would have turned up and I'd have wasted his time. At least to get the content out of all of this. So yeah they're tough and it's very easy. And I think this is a consequence of the digital era, right? It's very easy to say yes to things. To

Clayton: 27:38

Yes. Because we make it so easy. Yeah, you're right. We make it so easy for them to say yes. And then also if you make it a bit more difficult, so they have to think about saying yes, they don't want to say yes because they have to give too much information. So you've got to make it somewhere. You chase these webinars, you chase these workshops and masterclasses. I remember the very first one I did, I also marketed, I spent so much time on creating content and posters and all kinds of stuff and all the reminders on Calendly and everything that went out. And I can't remember, I think it was 33 people registered, actually went through the registration and answered the four questions. So there was a lot of effort from those people.

Paul: 28:15

and still

Clayton: 28:15

Four people pitched, so 33, four people pitched. But the best thing was that, that day was my first webinar on my wife. She'll remember that because I was moaning about it. But two of those people turned into customers. So 50 percent of the audience turned into actual long term clients. So the other masterclasses haven't had maybe that success. But it's still in the back of your mind, it's worth doing. You just gotta, you just gotta, you gotta just pull at the right strings.

Paul: 28:41

It's

Clayton: 28:41

Yeah, exactly.

Paul: 28:42

Love it. Look we'll get some show notes together. We'll get some links for whatever you've got coming up as well as those lead magnets. And you'll drop them in over to me over email. And if the audience out there want to take things a bit further, find out a bit more about growth crew or your mentorship. Like how can they, what's the next steps for them?

Clayton: 28:59

Best way is LinkedIn, cause that's where all entrepreneurs live. So if you want to reach me, go on LinkedIn. If you would love to do the lead magnet, it's on my page on LinkedIn. And it's there's links to the website and everything. Yeah, if you want to do the lead magnet, which is a bit of an assessment. And you trying to figure out where you are with your own leadership and where your opportunities for growth are, then please do that.

Paul: 29:20

Fantastic. Clayton, as ever, it's been a genuine pleasure, mate. This is probably what our fourth podcast we've done together over all my previous endeavors. And I enjoy them every time. So thank you very much for coming on and being a fantastic guest, mate.

Clayton: 29:32

Now, Paul, thank you for the opportunity and for the platform for people to like me to speak about what we do. I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Paul: 29:37

You're welcome. And thank you for coming along, watching the show or listening to us on your favorite podcast directory. be back next week with another exciting episode. Please don't forget to subscribe. And if you would be so kind to drop us a review, a genuine review, doesn't need to be five stars. Just tell us what you think. Just don't make it one, please. If you want to leave a one star one, fine, go ahead and do that. It's fine. But yes, no, thank you very much for coming along. We'll see you next week. Bye bye.