Paul: 0:29

Hello and Welcome back to another episode of MarketPulse Pros and Pioneers. This week I'm joined by Heidi Medina. Hi Heidi.

Heidi: 0:37

Hi, Paul.

Paul: 0:38

are you?

Heidi: 0:39

Thanks for having me.

Paul: 0:40

This episode is going to be an absolute pile of fun like Heidi and I have been talking we met over some terrible, terrible cold outreach messages that we, we'd each received. Heidi been posting about it and, and talking people through how to do things the right way. And I'd, I'd messaged Heidi behind the scenes with some of my own terrible, terrible interactions that I'd been having at the time. So give you a bit of background for, for Heidi, for those at home who are watching. Heidi's been social media market strategist for what, 30 years. Wow. I, that's. That's a, that's a lot of experience to have Heidi. So it's phenomenal to speak to someone as well, who has that. understanding of the evolution of social media as well, which I think is really important to helping people move forward. So she specializes in helping motivated business owners and coaches stand out and convert connections into paying clients. In, in, in non salesy terms, she stops you sending shitty, Direct messages, and helps you send ones that connect with people instead. She's based in Denver, Colorado, and I don't really need to highlight it too much, but Heidi's specialism is in helping people build genuine relationships because with genuine relationships, people get to know you, like you, and trust you and leveraging that with a combination of that and social media content It allows you to attract your dream clients and retain them. Heidi, what is your fun fact?

Heidi: 2:07

Well, fun fact is I actually spend most of my time in Portugal. Yeah, so Denver is our base and it's where the family and all that is, but we actually moved to Portugal in 2018 and we are on track to apply for citizenship this year. So we're going to be getting EU passports.

Paul: 2:27

Congratulations. Congratulations. And why Portugal?

Heidi: 2:32

Oh, long story, but let's just say it ticked all the boxes when we decided we wanted to move to Europe and it literally is an incredible country to live in, just an amazing place. And it's a great jumping off point because we travel three to four months out of the year, and we can get to pretty much anywhere from here easily. So. Plus great Wi Fi, really good Wi Fi.

Paul: 2:56

An efficient tax too. I like, yeah, I've got a lot of friends who are big fans of and even just being digital nomads in and around the sort of Spain and Portugal area, so I totally get it. So your business is Talk to Heidi, right? Talk me through Talk to Heidi. What's, what's, what's, what started that off?

Heidi: 3:12

Well, I was actually, I've been in content marketing. I worked with corporate companies for about 11 years now. And then, I don't know, 2019, I had already been on LinkedIn. For, I don't know, let's see, since 20, late 2017. And I just was spending a lot of times in DMs answering people as to why LinkedIn worked so well for me and how I was able to get conversations going. I was getting big corporate clients to sign. And so people were just, and I was constantly spending at that point, two to three hours a day, just helping people. Get better with just getting conversations going. It started out with just LinkedIn, then moved over to Facebook and then email. And then it was just like, okay, we just need to talk to people like human beings. And that's pretty much what it is. So it evolved from that and the name, because everything I've done has been around conversation. Even our signature program, I just finally finished it getting developed. We call it talk because. I truly believe if we can communicate in a good way, we can build, you can do solve anything. We can literally solve all the world's problems with good communication. And that's what it's lacking in the online space with most people. And they jump on and it's, you, this, we, we've had these conversations where they, people just jump out with the worst possible ways to connect with people. You would never do that when you walked up to a person in real life. So I'm really trying to help people get that connection that the online world is real life. It's in person, just through a screen. And just allow them to talk to people like human beings, the way you want to be talked to, and so that you can connect and get clients out of the deal. I,

Paul: 4:53

Why do you think so many people and businesses get it wrong though? I mean, like you say, it seems when you say it like that, it seems like common sense, right? It's logical. All we're doing is having conversations digitally. Why don't we have a conversation as opposed to just trying to spam people to death or have really weird ruses with people? Sales messages hidden behind things. Why don't we just have conversations?

Heidi: 5:16

the disconnects seems to be, and this kind of frustrates me too, because I think, first of all, people have not connected the online space with this is the real world. For some reason, because it's on a screen and a keyboard, we don't realize that, Typing that answer or whatever is still conversation. Putting out a piece of content is still you talking to your people, get wanting them to talk back to you and just connect with you. And there's some disconnect the minute we put that piece of, the screen and the keyboard in front of us, there's this disconnect because people get on there and all of a sudden there's this mindset of they'll say things that they would never say in person. And that's one of the rules I give people. Anybody, my clients especially, but anybody who will listen. I'm like, if you won't say it in person, don't do it online because it's treated the same way. And I just, they get, they feel like they can hide. They can be someone else. They can It's almost like a different persona instead of just being themselves and treating people the way they'd want to be treated. It's truly amazing to me because I work with other business owners and yet I'm appalled with how often I get treated away and they don't want to be treated. And it's like, Why? I don't get it.

Paul: 6:35

It's easy to keep your motivation when you keep getting bad messages, right? Like I've got so many more people to help. It makes me think like at the weekend, we went to our local shopping center. So I'm, I'm in my big family car, I've got, I've got two kids in the back. My wife's there. We're just, we've had a pretty stressful morning. We've been out shopping, didn't get anything that we wanted and we're driving back out and it's, it's gridlocked, right? So I'm talking us slang here, right? Like it's, it's gridlocked on the way out. And we're driving out and I'm, I'm, I'm quite a considerate driver. I like to think so I've let this guy out from the side. I've let this lady out from this side. And we're just like, let one car out, one car goes forward, one car out, one car goes forward. And we get right down at the front and we're about to get out. And this guy's parked at the side and he's waiting to get out and I've already just let somebody out. So I'm going to move forward. And as I'm moving forward, he just drives straight into my side of the, into the road, like to try and push me out the way people who know me. No, I don't respond very well in that situation. I'm not, I'm not somebody who likes to be bullied in the slightest. So I just drove around the front of him, braved my horn really loudly and asked him what he was doing. And I had two kids in the car, so I literally didn't use any expetives. And this, I'm gonna guesstimate that he was in his mid 60s to early 70s. Gave me the middle finger in the middle of this car park and starts raging in the middle of his car. And I'm just thinking, if you were outside the car, there is no way on earth you would be behaving like this. And if I got out of my car right now, yes, I would be putting myself in a precarious legal position. However, I can guarantee you would stop waving your finger at me and we'd be having a much more normal conversation. general, sensible conversation as to why you thought you could push me out the way.

Heidi: 8:14

Yeah,

Paul: 8:15

I think it's that disconnect of keyboard warriors who are just or, even just the thought that when I was, when I was a kid, we used to go into chat rooms, chat rooms and voice chat. And you just, you would create a persona. You would be somebody different online that you were at home, but LinkedIn isn't the place for that. This is where you just get to be you, unequivocably you.

Heidi: 8:37

I used to play World of Warcraft all the time. I had my avatars and when I jumped on the game, I slipped right into my avatar. It was a healing priest and Red Tigress was her name, man. She was a badass, and yeah, I would slip into that persona and that, but And I also, I almost do encourage people to have their persona online because it helps, especially with women, and I'm sure guys, a lot of guys probably deal with this too more than they admit, but it can be intimidating selling and getting online and a bunch of strangers and stuff like that. So I do suggest that they do have some sort of persona to deal with but it needs to be authentically them, because people are going to meet them. It's not about being, oh my god, I'm warrior prince and I'm going to say whatever I want to say, and I, just because I know no one can get me through the keyboard, but that's not the case, because your goal is to get clients. These are people you're going to work with, and I like to remind people is that's going to have real world effect on your wallet. If we, if we just take everything else out, let's just talk about the money part, forget the rest of it. It's going to have real world effect on your wallet, so if you're not showing up in a way that actually connects with people, and you're treating people like human beings, It's pretty darn hard to sell and, and we know that's even getting more and more complicated because the length of time for people to buy now has definitely lengthened over this year. And so, if there's anything you can do to shorten that time, why wouldn't you? I totally jump in with that. And that's where the real conversation and just really treating people like that is, is just, just have a human conversation. Be yourself, because it's hard to be anything else. Not only that, there's a disconnect once they do sign with you, and all of a sudden you show up as real you. Then they're going to be, their brain is going to be sitting there Oh fuck, who did I just sign up to work with? Because it's not the same person that was trying to sell to me. So there's this whole thing of just being yourself and just like you said with the guy in the car park He wouldn't more than likely never done that if the two of you were out of the car He would have never said half the things he said and I don't know I mean I am one of the people that will walk down the sidewalk and flip somebody off in front of them But that's me. If somebody's an ass to me, I will pretty much tell you you've been an ass But most people

Paul: 11:03

But I

Heidi: 11:03

way and is there things I would not do it Yes, absolutely. So I don't do it online.

Paul: 11:10

but I think there's also a misconception that you You without taking anything away from your business, that people need to be trained on how to have these conversations properly. Actually, you don't. And there are some people that just naturally get that. Like I met, I met a guy online probably about three months ago now, and he's 16 year old. He actually lives up the road from me, not too far away, ironically. And he just dropped into my comments. He was talking to me in my comments. I think I've introduced you to him, Devrim. And he's such a nice, genuine guy, but His, his youth is belied by his natural conversation. Cause he's just curious about people. He just has conversation. He just adds value or his opinion. And he's unabashed with that. He knows who he is and who he wants to be. And, but I see leaders of business who've been in their industry for 30, 40 years, struggling with, with what to say and how to say it. And I just think it's ironic. And I wonder, Heidi, it might be a good question for you is, do people have to unincorporate themselves? Are they too afraid to just be themselves because of their previous corporate roles?

Heidi: 12:13

I definitely think that that has something to do with it for sure. And then it's just the fact, so many, look, communication is one of the main tools that you use. You talk to people all day long, no matter where you are. In the world, on person, online, not, and yet think about it. You're never actually taught how to communicate. You just learn little bits and pieces as you grow up from the people around you and stuff. You never really learn how to communicate. So people all of a sudden, they decide to jump into business. Oh my God, how do I talk to my clients? And then yes, you've got the background of what happened in the corporate world. Oh, I can't say this, or I can't say it that way, or I can't do this. And then all of a sudden, especially with LinkedIn, LinkedIn, everybody worries about, am I professional enough? Cause they, the whole idea of the corporate is definitely ingrained in, we're slowly, it's slowly slipping away. But it's still, cause LinkedIn itself is trying to hang on to that, no matter what. And even though we're slowly seeing traditional corporations also move into more casual and this kind of stuff too, there's still the idea, we're briefcase, we're suits, we're this, we can't say certain things cause we might get sued. This whole thing. And yeah, so I think people find it hard to know, Exactly what to say. And then of course you get, you're bombarded with constantly with people telling you, do it this way, do it that way, do it this way. And then there's a million and one different ways to market yourself. And you've got to decide on which one works for me. And it all comes down into how they show up with the conversation. So they're scared to not be professional enough. They're scared people are going to reject them. Rejection's the big one too. It's fear of rejection. People are afraid of just showing up as themselves. That people aren't going to like that. They're not going to accept them. And all of that just affects how they talk to people.

Paul: 14:12

And I think for me, like there's a big thing there that I've embraced around just reframing that rejection. And for me, that rejection now is a positive thing because it's somebody who I shouldn't have been working with, who I've pushed away. And that's a positive thing because, even People get tied down to this idea that I've got a target audience and they work very hard to identify the target audience. And that's lovely. Great. We should be doing a lot of work on that and constantly refining that because that, that target audience can move over time as you and your business moves. But then they think that that whole target audience is their entire market. And they think that they have to market to everybody within that target audience. No, there is a subset of people within that who align with you as a person, align with your personality and your way of thinking, have a similar experience and background, or one that marries into that nicely. And who, if you sign them as a client, will never ever leave you unless something happens that forces them to leave you. Um, so look for that niche within your, for me, I move closer towards ADHD business owners. Executive coaches rather than just coaches. There are always further refinements that you find if you look hard enough where you can niche that down a bit and just make your own life so much easier. Which then, And this is where you come into it nicely, is allows you to have a nice, natural conversation in the direct messages, or in the email, without worrying about, is this coming across the right way or not, because you can have the confidence of just being you, right?

Heidi: 15:45

Yeah. And it's funny cause I always, think you were on holiday when I posted the post a while back, but I just said, if you aren't offending someone in your marketing, you aren't doing it well. Which is the truth because we don't want everyone to like us. A, we couldn't work with all the people that they did. And B, if everyone is liking us. Then our messaging is off. We actually should be repelling people. And that's how showing up is yourself. And I know we're always saying be authentic, be real you and everything. A lot of people don't even understand what that means. And, okay, now this is where I was talking about persona, you can have your, I'm, I'm, I'm business persona, because some people are like, well, I wouldn't show up the way I would personally with my friends, there's all of a sudden this disconnect with the brain monkeys and stuff, and they're just like, and I'm like, that's okay, yes, you are going to be a little different with your friends than you are with your clients, and this kind of stuff. It is okay that you're not, quote, 100 percent the same with everybody. Even though with me what is what you get. My clients get me just the same way you do and everybody else because it is just less complicated for me. But yeah, if you, if you aren't, everybody is not your I ideal client. Even if they do appear to be, they're not. So if you if you aren't offending people, then you're not doing it well enough. But that doesn't mean that offense has to be like a lot of marketing tactics we see out there with people who have no awareness, they literally just dump. Crappy DM sells pitches on you, or, even, I love

Paul: 17:17

did you get my email?

Heidi: 17:18

what's that?

Paul: 17:19

So, did you get my email?

Heidi: 17:21

Yeah, yeah, or,

Paul: 17:22

Sorry,

Heidi: 17:23

or the, I love the ones that just go, hey, and I'm

Paul: 17:26

Or

Heidi: 17:26

seriously?

Paul: 17:27

hey dear, even better, hey dear, that is my personal favourite, I love those messages.

Heidi: 17:33

yeah, or dear sir or madam. I'm like, you couldn't have at

Paul: 17:37

Well, Dear Sir or Madam is a little bit, it's at least professional, but Hello Dear? Geez, really? That's the best you got?

Heidi: 17:46

I'm actually getting the one that say, dear sir OR madam. And I'm like, you couldn't have at least looked at my profile and picked.

Paul: 17:53

Oh, I thought you meant that it actually said Dear Madam or if it was me that said

Heidi: 17:58

I have

Paul: 17:59

Well, I see. Yes.

Heidi: 18:00

I have my pronouns on my LinkedIn profile. The least you could do is look at that and get it right. That it's at least at this point, madam, even though I hate being cold madam. It just makes me feel like I'm a great, great, great, great grandmother. Yeah, yeah,

Paul: 18:14

we used to call our senior officers in the police force. Yeah, it's, and but I, at the same time, I do understand people, right? Like I've been that person. I've been that person wondering how to reach my target audience, seeing everybody else having success, which I find out long time down the line, that they're not, they're not really. And most, even influencers with thousands of followers struggle to monetize their followers, right? Because this is, we give this perception publicly that lots of followers and lots of interactions means where we're raking the money in. And we'll tell people we're raking the money in and Newsflash, most of those people aren't. Some of those people I know have been going to LinkedIn coaches themselves to find out what they're doing wrong because they can't monetize it. And I just think there's, there's too much fake out there for me and it makes life really hard for everybody who's genuine. Like when you see all that fake out there, you assume that's real. Or, you don't know whether it's fake or not. Pods, pods are another big thing of mine. There are ways that I would accept a pod. So if anybody doesn't know what a pod is, it's where you might join a group of people and they will all engage with your content in return for you engaging with theirs. Sometimes that's manual, sometimes it's automated. Generally when you see somebody post and they have five, six hundred comments within an hour or so, It's a pod and people falsely believe those people have real gravitas. And then you read their post and think, well, that's what I'm writing. That's exactly what I'm doing. Why, why are they getting? So I guess my next question for you then, Heidi, is for somebody who's out there and, and they're still getting to grips with conversations and how to have real conversations. How do you start a conversation for a business conversation? Without dropping into the personal bucket of, Hey, how are you doing? I'm Paul. And then how do you transfer that into a business conversation? Cause that's really awkward. Or, or the other side of, Hey, do you want to buy my stuff? Cause no, I don't want to buy your stuff. Cause we haven't really met. So what's the, what's the middle ground for you? What's a good starting point.

Heidi: 20:20

First of all, have genuine curiosity. A lot of people talk too much about themselves and don't leave the door open and ask questions. So, get in there, introduce yourself but ask them to talk about themselves. And then, how I tend to segue and get it in is, You've got two ways you could come at it, and both work, depending on how well you know the person already. Maybe you've already been engaging in the comments for a while, and you've noticed something that they have going on, that isn't quite working, and you know how to fix it. And you could be, you could pop in, hey, I've noticed this is happening, do you mind if I give you a couple tips? And with that, you've opened the door, cause most people are gonna say, of course, yes. And that, cause you, you give them an actual example. I noticed this, you were doing this online. I could say, hey, I noticed in your content, you weren't using a call to action. You, and I could just say, hey, here's a couple of tip, quick tips. Use them, but I always ask permission too. Can I drop you the tips? I don't just drop them on them. And then once you have the permission base, you got the conversation going and then you can ask, hey, it can continue the conversation from that point depending on how they respond. Or, the other option is, if you've introduced yourself you could be like, maybe you just connected. And, I always, I've gotten where I'm sending notes again. I didn't used to, cause we didn't need to, but now we've really gotta be a little more pushing to get the conversation going. So, I will send a little intro note. Just a quick thing about me, just one sentence. And usually, I make it a bit of fun. I'll say, I do this for work, and I live in sunny Portugal, which is an immediate door opener. Cause everybody's oh my god, what, cause I say I'm from the States, but I live in Portugal. And everybody's immediately oh my god, how'd you live in Portugal, that's so cool. So I've opened the door, but I've also right under that, I ask them a question, and hey, ask them about themselves. It's, tell me what you do, tell me, or whatever we've got, where were we connected? It's something usually about that. And then that gets the door. And I just start from there. And then how I'm able to switch it to talking about what I do, cause most people will go, Well, hey, how's your day going? And I immediately just pull out a story, working with a client, or something that I saw happen that's around what I do. And that's generally, it's usually a common problem most people online suffer with. And so, because I've told it in a story, and I just dropped it out, or I maybe I had, when I get done now, somebody's gonna be like, what'd you do today? Well, I had this cool call with Paul Banks. We were talking about this. So, I'm just telling a story, I'm just sharing my day, but it gets people talking to you, and it's non threatening. You're not trying to sell at that point, you're literally just trying to open the door. And it's easy. It works like magic. And people, a lot of people are like, well, they didn't buy it immediately. No, you gotta be committed to having more conversations.

Paul: 23:31

Yeah. I think there's, there's, there's two things there that you said that, that kind of opened my eyes a little bit, which is you've probably been engaging in the comments a bit. There's a pointer here, right? Creating a conversation with somebody is not just jumping into their inbox and expecting a conversation. It takes time and effort. It means it can't be automated a lot of the time, or elements of it can be, but not the entire thing. You can do so much but you certainly can't do the meat and bones of it. And It means you need to be targeted and specific. So for me, one of the, one of the best bits of advice I have got given was to create a bookmark list of people you were currently talking to. If you've got sales navigator, that's pretty easy to do, but not everybody does and it's, it's expensive. So just create a, a Chrome bookmark list of people I'm currently trying to engage a conversation with. And if they come back and know you delete them off the list and you put somebody else on and you keep moving through it, but you can keep coming back to their content and engaging in a genuine way, you will get noticed. So the other thing that you said that I found really interesting was, that being prepared to have further conversations without a sale. So, I often go, and I probably shouldn't do this, to be honest, but it works for me, right? Is I can go a full 30 minutes having a networking conversation with somebody and not even mention my business at all. But I tell you what happens at the end of that conversation, every time. Oh, Paul, time's up, I need to go. But, I'd love to learn a bit more about what it is that you actually do, cause I realise I haven't asked. And at that point, there's a reciprocity there, right? You've spent the entire conversation talking about them, and their business, and what they do, and offering advice, and support, and value. And now all of a sudden they're a bit, feel a bit bad because you spent the entire time talking about them and they didn't ask about you. So like that works, that really works because then at least they're coming back with an open ear. So it might take you more time to have those conversations, but they're much higher converting when you do have them. Have you got a particular success story that you would be able to share with us, Heidi, in terms of a client that you've worked with, Anonymous, maybe, where, they came to you with struggles and you've helped them turn that round now. Have you got anything memorable that sticks out?

Heidi: 25:43

So I had a, I had a client who actually, hated Social media. To the point she wasn't even on the platforms. And so she knew this was during COVID of course, she had to get something going online because everything she was doing was in person at that point. So she came and started working with me to help her get good on LinkedIn. And one of the things is, is was she needed to do, of course, DMs and get the conversation going. So we really just worked hard for six weeks to build her an online presence just by talking to people. And that's literally the strategy I used with her. It was so easy. And a lot of people just don't realize it can't be this easy. And I'm like, Just get on create content that feels good talking about what you do and just have conversations with people talking about what you do. And literally from going from, I don't even think she had 10 people connected on LinkedIn yet. She really had not been on social media. But we, in six weeks, she, she signed her first client, first one ever online,

Paul: 26:47

fantastic.

Heidi: 26:48

and she did it all just by having conversations and talking to people. And she came back to me, she's like, Heidi, I never thought it would be that easy or that fun. She's I was hating this. She's you knew how bad I hated social media, and, and yet here it is. I'm enjoying this. I'm having a blast, and all I'm doing is spending an hour a day talking to people. And that's literally all she was doing.

Paul: 27:12

And that's the thing is right. It doesn't, doesn't need to take your entire deal and it shouldn't take your entire deal, you have a business to run and this is only one small part of your entire business. So if you're, if you're following people who are telling you, you need to spend more and more time online, more and more time messaging people and more and more time creating content, you're doing things the wrong way because more volume does not mean more quality. I love that. I love that story. Um, I wonder. So we asked all of our guests two fairly standard questions, Heidi. And I know your temptation will be to answer one of them with shitty messaging, but what's one thing, one market and practice that you wish business owners would stop using right now without shitty messaging?

Heidi: 27:55

Ooh, this is still gonna be messaging, but using AI to do the conversation for you. Oh my God, please stop. Everybody just stop it. It's about, it's, it's one thing if you've automated, you tell'em to drop an emoji or a certain word in and that you're gonna send them a link to a certain program. That's one thing that's okay, because you're telling them, do this, you'll get a link that can be automated 100%. But if you are trying to actually engage with someone, never had a conversation with them at all, and all of a sudden you got, the AI comments I get on my content, I, I have put a reframe on them. I say, well, that's helping me with visibility. It is one more comment. But I call them out, I'm like, cause I'm not there to connect with a bot, I'm there to connect with a human being, and oh, oh my god, this is soapbox for me, I can write on this for days, but, please stop people, right?

Paul: 28:55

that ironically. We often get that for the show, for the MarketPulse show. We often get people dropping AI comments on all Oh, and Paul, what was your favorite part of this podcast? And I'm like, well, my favorite part of the podcast was where we discussed not using AI to send conversations and comments. Oh, you

Heidi: 29:11

What was your favorite part?

Paul: 29:12

there's nobody behind it because there's nobody there actually answering the, Oh yeah, don't get me started. Um, on the flip side, what's, what's one thing you wish business owners would do more? Marketing wise,

Heidi: 29:24

Be more human.

Paul: 29:25

are they missing?

Heidi: 29:26

Literally, and I know that sounds weird, but be more human. Realize you are talking to human beings, and think about the things you're saying. I literally, I tell everybody, if that person was sitting across the table from you, and you said that to them, how would that make you feel? And, I can tell you, most people immediately go, oh my god, I would never say that to someone sitting across the table from me. And that's how you want to treat the online conversations you're doing. Just stop doing it. Think about that with your content, your websites, literally, everything you do, Put the human element in it and start realizing that it's not just words on a screen. It actually is a conversation with people that's going to affect them. You're going to help change their lives. It's gonna affect your life because if you get the client, it changes your life, and then it's the ripple effect. So just start being more human and realize how you can connect and And be, be kind. Gosh, we need more kindness. We do.

Paul: 30:30

I agree. I agree. Some interesting food for thought at the end. I like that, Heidi. We could talk for hours and probably will, cause I think we've got some, we've got lots of conversations coming up over the next couple of months, so I'm looking forward to engaging with you and the audience a bit more. If people want to find out a bit more about TalkToHeidi, or they want to reach out to you, what's the best ways for them to do so?

Heidi: 30:50

Honestly, connect with me on LinkedIn. Heidi Medina. It's quite easy. I'm always there and that's one place. Drop in my DMs and say, hi, you heard me on here or. Just send a connection note, let me know.

Paul: 31:02

As long as it's not automated, right? Love it. When we get off the show, I'm going to get the link for your book and your latest webinars and things, and we'll make sure they're all in the show notes for everybody who wants to see a little bit more about what we've been talking about. Thank you very much for being a fantastic guest. I knew this would be fun. I wasn't quite sure how much fun, but it was a lot of fun. So, thank you very much for coming along, Heidi. Pleasure to have

Heidi: 31:21

much for having me. I appreciate it.

Paul: 31:23

And thank you at home for coming along and making all this possible, right? Cause this, this series is for you. It's, I don't get anything out of this. So it's not sponsored or anything like that at the moment. I am open to sponsors. But we haven't got any sponsors at the moment. It is literally about just adding value back to people. We want to help you do more with the market and that you have. We want to showcase some good examples of marketing and, and help you shy away from the, some of the terrible God awful marketing that's out there at the moment. So thank you for coming along. Give us a subscribe if you've enjoyed, and I will see you again next week for another episode of MarketPulse Pros and Pioneers

Heidi: 31:59

Ciao everyone. police station that they're coming for you, Heidi,

Paul: 32:03

they've

Heidi: 32:03

are.

Paul: 32:04

you.

Heidi: 32:05

Oh, oh, they missed me on this one.