Paul: 0:29

And welcome to another episode of MarketPulse Pros and Pioneers. I'm Paul, the host here at the show, and this week I've got a very special guest. Alan Pilkington, welcome to the show. Thanks very much for coming along.

Alan: 0:42

Thanks for having me, Paul. Good day.

Paul: 0:43

We've had some, if you can't tell, I'm not in my usual camera position. So we've had some technical issues. I think we've solved them all, but just goes to show that if you are running your own podcast or you think you're about to run your own podcast, you need more technical support than you think you do need. Alan here is founder and CEO at Digital Facilitators. Who are dedicated to connecting businesses in the digital agency world. And as we were talking before the show, Alan was, talking quite passionately about how when they make connections, it's more about personality lined up with the client's individual needs. And I think that's something that is definitely missing in that kind of ecosystem and referral environment. More than that, Alan's also got 15 years in digital marketing experience, involving roles at Google, Bobble Digital, and various different kind of fintech and e commerce businesses. So with that fantastic background, Alan leverages that network and experience that he's got to offer free consultations and very bespoke solutions to his clients. What's more interesting, what I'm going to lead into directly is Alan's passion for helping businesses succeed is only matched by his unique background, which includes appearances on 14 TV shows. Alan, how on earth do you move from TV shows into the digital facilitation world? How does that work?

Alan: 2:03

I didn't, realise you're gonna start with that question. Thanks very much. so yeah, basically, yes, I have indeed been on 14 different TV shows in multiple countries. How it really started out was in 2002, someone said to me that I should actually go and become a TV or radio presenter, over in the UK. Yes, I do have a face for radio. but in short, I thought it'd be a great way to get into TV by being a contestant on a multitude of different shows, including the likes of Love on a Saturday Night with Davina McCall, all the way down to Dick and Dom with the Bungalow. Yes, I have been on those shows. But in realistic terms, it was a case where I just want to be smart. I wanted to get into the industry. I thought I could meet all the producers, then they would get me in as a presenter somehow. That didn't obviously work, so then I had to go get a job after university, which started off at EasyJet. Went into the world of sales, moved to London and the rest is history. Then I moved into digital marketing in 2009.

Paul: 3:03

Fantastic. And it's an interesting background and I guess just goes to reflect on it. The level of career support that a lot of people get at that young age in terms of helping people understand how they can actually get involved in the industries. And it is a lot easier than a lot of people think, but there are lots of pitfalls and red flags along the way to that route of getting there, And I remember studying software engineering at school, at university, and being told that was how I needed to get involved in website design. Turned out I didn't really want to work in website design in the first place. I just thought I did. with that kind of background Alan, digital marketing, your unique business approach, what, is it that you've set out Digital Facilitators to achieve?

Alan: 3:48

This is probably going to burn a few bridges, but essentially that, over the last 15 years, I've seen a lot of rogue agencies taking advantage of different businesses, different, various sizes, B2B, B2C, D2C, UK, European wide, international. And I was just basically sick of it, of the whole, Point is to help the business grow. And companies are saying like, look, I don't want to move to another agency. I've been burned four times, wasted tens of thousands of pounds. My business went under, had to start a new one, various, different things I've been, told. So the digital facilitators is basically being set up to help prevent that. People can come to me completely free of charge. I'll do a full scope of the work that they need. Put them in touch with the relevant people that will help them grow their business, whether it's online or offline, while it's not getting burnt. that's the ethos. We literally just want to help businesses grow from the ground up, whether you're a startup, scale up, enterprise, it really doesn't matter to us. We will help as many businesses as possible to make the right choices when it comes to choosing the right agencies or tech partners in the market.

Paul: 4:51

As far, I love people who have a passion behind what they do, Alan. and I think you can, see the difference in the businesses that are there for, there's a, greater good that underlies the businesses. And yes, we've all gotta make money in order to pay the bills. But how you go about that and the way in which you pursue that very much speaks volumes about the people that you work with. Do you find that marketing agencies themselves do a lot of referral work the right way, or do you find that the way that the system is built up doesn't do them a favour if that makes sense?

Alan: 5:26

Yeah. It makes total sense. I think it's a case where it really depends on the size of the agency and the targets and whatnot. So you'll have agencies that will spend a lot of money on the marketing, a lot of money on the events, and they just want to get as much new acquisitions as possible, where there's a lot of then what I'd call unqualified outleads or RFPs that didn't come to fruition just sitting there. So that's actually something else that we do with the digital facilitators. we proactively ask businesses, agencies, tech partners, anything that's unqualified out, feel free to pass in my direction because we want to help those businesses that they couldn't help in the first place. And then maybe we'll grow the businesses to a certain size, but they're then ready To go back to the agency and be one of their clients. Or maybe it's a case where the agencies are just too busy. They don't have the time. They have too many clients on board. They just can't help everybody, but they still feel the need that they have to keep that lead because they don't want to give it to their competition. They'll feel a bit dirty about that. So that's what I'm here to do the dirty work for them. So they don't have to.

Paul: 6:25

And I see loads of great business, there are whole businesses out there that could exist from, Almost the scrapings of bigger, agencies work, and I've, been past some of those jobs myself and I had some fantastic relationships with some people that, that are just, a bad fit for the others. And to your point, I'm sick of hearing how, we shouldn't help the competition. there is no such thing as competition. If you know your business, and you've built your business the right way up from the ground up, there is no competition, because you are you, and they are they, even if you do the same thing. Is that fair?

Alan: 7:00

That's totally fair. And look, there's so many, there's so much stuff out there. There's so many leads out there. You talk about the referral network. But the thing is, there's lots of agencies out there that are take, For example, and I don't mind using this, when there's that bubble digital, we gave away quite a lot of leads to certain agencies, especially on the web dev side, but Xero was coming back in return. Literally zeros coming back in return. That's why I set it up in such a way that I want to make sure that people want to use the digital facilitators for that need. they're like, why should I give you all my leads, Alan? Why would I do that? That's just, crazy talk. So what I offer is, if you don't mind me saying, anyone that I then place elsewhere, I will give away 25 percent of the entire revenue that the TDF makes. as a thank you. So for 10 seconds work, the biggest one we've done today was 5, 500 that we gave to someone and they only spent, I don't know, two days with us in regards to getting that project across the line. So not bad money to be had. And there's billions, not millions, billions out there that can be, that's left on the table.

Paul: 8:01

So coming back to your experience then, prior to building TDF, like Google, and Bobble Digital, I imagine you've got some fantastic experiences that you've filled there. Do you want to give us a little bit more of the background that, that led you to the journey where you are right now?

Alan: 8:17

Yeah, of course. I fell into this world. So when I moved to Leeds in 2009, I was obviously applying for the various different roles and then someone actually headhunted me across, onto the Google side of things. So I found that really like interesting. I didn't know what Google ads was. it's like similar, like when I, what is that? Reg Transfers selling private number plates in my one, my, one of my other roles. I didn't know what a VV five logbook was, but it was a case where that, like Google Ads was something that was growing, but now it's turned into an absolute animal of, a system. during my time there, six and a half years, I was teaching, training, educating agencies, mainly in the, Australian, South African, market. So South African obviously is classified as a third world country. And I was there to help develop the agencies and educate them across all the platforms, search, display, mobile, YouTube, Google shopping, GSP, Google sponsored promotion, Gmail sponsored promotions. but for me, it wasn't the education piece. It was making sure again, that the agency was onboarding the right clients. in the right way and making sure that they are getting, value for money. Cause there's nothing worse than seeing someone It would be an over promise and under delivered in regards to money that's spending with an agency and that's just my pet hate I'm, sorry, whoever's listening to this, but that's not something I condone. I just really honestly think hand on heart There's a more ethical way to do things whilst making some good money for your business.

Paul: 9:46

You think that they even realise that's the case though?

Alan: 9:48

Look i'll even say about google themselves and I don't mind saying this I don't think they'll sue me because it's true. But like when you're there They give you targets, which is fine, but you can't go to a company that's already spending, say, 100, 000 a year and getting five times the return. Brilliant, making half a million. Pick up the phone. Tell them if they double their investment, they'll double their returns. No, they won't. Your cost per acquisition will rise. Your ROAS will tank. Everyone knows that there is a ceiling and there is an incremental way of doing things. But as opposed to just saying, Just get them to double down, get them to double down, get as much money out of them as humanly possible. It doesn't matter if they churn or not because everyone wants to be a part of Google and Google's like a, a necessary evil. Everyone needs to use Google but that they have to use it by blasting through so much money just for the sake of doing it, no they don't.

Paul: 10:37

What's more important in your eyes then? Is it what the client think they want, or is it the personal relationship with the agency that they end up working with?

Alan: 10:47

Good question. I think it's a bit of both if I'm honest. So obviously we want results at the end of the day, but the relationship needs to be there to make it work. At the same time, I've seen plenty of, other companies where, Oh, I don't want to leave my, I don't want to leave my agencies, my mate from school, so on and so forth. You helped me start out. That's great. But he's now taking money from you whilst burning your business just because you have a friendship. Friendship aside, you need to be cherry pick and be very careful on who you want to work with and for how long. Over time, stuff can get soured very, quickly. So as long as the results are there, brilliant. As long as you have a great relationship, brilliant. But the two should go hand in hand. That the people behind the wheel need to make sure that they're steering your business ship in the right direction.

Paul: 12:01

So if you're a small business owner out there, small to medium enterprise out there, how do you know when it's time to shift your market and partner, your agency? How do you know when they're, cause a lot of it's black box stuff, right? Like a lot of it's hidden behind the scenes and you're painted a very nice picture up front and from your perspective, you just feel like you're not doing the right things in the business. Yeah.

Alan: 12:25

As a founder, as a business owner, you have to wear many hats, you're not quite understanding everything, but what I, again, this is what the agencies need to take a bit more ownership. So many agencies out there will help. People create accounts on Google, or Meta, or Paid, or websites, whatever, but they won't give them access to it. They won't allow them to see what's under the hood. They won't teach, train, or educate them as part of the package. And I'm not saying teach them to the point where they're gonna go, I know everything now. Thanks very much. I'm off. Cheers for the last six years, or six months, or six weeks. but within reason. that is building a brand or owns a website or has something in e commerce, for example. First rule, make sure you get access to everything because you're paying for it. So why aren't you? Rule two is, make sure that you have firm goals and aspirations and KPIs that you both agree on. What's realistic, what's not realistic. And thirdly, Communication is key. So I'm not saying that as a business, you need to hound your agency 24 7, but at the same time, have more than a monthly meeting where they just simply say, Oh, this is your results this month, see you next month. You're paying hundreds, if not thousands of pounds or tens of thousands of pounds. Get value in the relationship as well. Those are my thrEe

Paul: 13:40

And on the flip side of that, if you've realised that it's come to the end of your time with your current agency and it's time to move on, maybe you've grown outgrown them. Maybe you're just going in a different track or maybe you've never had one and you're looking for somebody for the first time. How can business owners out there ensure that they meet the right agency for them? Like how do they do, what you're doing?

Alan: 14:00

Yeah, that's a very good question. And look, and that's why TDF was created, right? Because. I saw someone, literally a few months ago, they went to 23 RFPs. If you don't know what it is, request for proposal. Okay, the amount of time and energy consumed inside of that, and even at the end of it, they didn't find the right agency or tech partner or solution. So they spent months and months of going through all that rigmarole. They wasted time, they wasted money. They weren't able to find the right people. That's why the digital facilitators was created. To help alleviate the time and money. Make sure you don't get burned. Make sure you put in front of the right people at the right time. Our USP is that you'll always get to speak to three people per segment. So if you're doing attribution modeling or creating a new Shopify store, I've already done all the work for you. But if you want to, don't want to use my services for free, that's fine. If you want to go out by yourself, make sure you do your due diligence. Make sure that you're working with people that have your intentions at heart. Okay, make sure that they are working already with people in your industry. So if you're going to do, I don't know, say you're selling mobile phones, what experience do they have in selling mobile phones? How many countries? how much have they grown the business? Was it an entry level business? Was it someone that they're scaling up? just do your due diligence and making sure it's the right fit across the board and ask as many questions as humanly possible and educate yourself. don't feel the need to not know anything about your business in regards to how social media or, the digital marketing side of things works, educate yourself where you can as A business owner, as best you can, because that will help you make better decisions and trust certain people when it comes to actually spending your money on their behalf.

Paul: 15:44

If I was to bring it back to, digital marketing and what's going on in, in the industry as a whole right now, what are some of the things that you've seen coming out as trends in digital marketing that you're quite excited about perhaps that you're seeing a lot of people coming to you who are interested to do more with? Is there anything, we've seen AI and emerging technologies like that coming out. Is there, something that's particularly floating your boat at the moment?

Alan: 16:09

I, think the whole world of TikTok shop is quite interesting. I, was at a talk a while ago and I think they said that's going to turn into a 600 business in the next kind of four or five years, which is totally bananas. but I can see the reasons why. I can see like the short form video, the user generated content. I can see the deliverabilities. It's not just for, the younger generation. It's I'm 43. It's demographics across the board that are using it. and I even went actually today, funnily enough. And bought something on TikTok shop for the first time. So let's see what happens with that. But in regards to anything else that excites me, there's so many kind of like different brands coming out there. the fact that people have given it a go to create their own business. I think the pandemic really accelerated that. I think it was something like 185, 000 brand new e commerce stores were built in the UK alone in the first two years of the pandemic. So it's a crazy world out there. It's competitive. It's exciting. Can I cherry pick one or two things that really excite me? No. Can I try to pick something that scares the crap out of me? Yes. AI really scares me. without being funny, if anyone's ever seen the Terminator movie, it's actually 2027, where the Terminator movie's set, three years from now. let's just make sure that we're careful on how we're using AI, folks, okay? We don't want to make sure that we end up in that kind of situation, not saying that we will. but look, there's just so much, so many thing moving components. Google's changing all the time, moving from UA to GA4. Sorry if we all hate it, please go back to Universal Analytics, please. It's just an exciting time. It's an explosive time. If you're trying to get into digital marketing for the first time or looking for a career, digital marketing is where it's at. This is where you need to be. If you don't like a 9 to 5 in the retail world in a shop, get into digital marketing because it's going to be a job for life.

Paul: 17:53

Having lived that life, I can vouch for that. and then I guess what's, something that really gets your goat right now in terms of marketing?

Alan: 18:01

So if you're a business owner and you just set up an e commerce brand, They're like, you just think to yourself, I need everything. I need social media. I need this. I need that. I need to do all of this, but I need to do it all for a hundred pounds. So for example, I spoke to someone this morning who came to TDF and, they're doing a naming no names, but a luxury handbag company. And he was looking at content management, SEO, social media management. I was like, okay, what's your goal? I said, in the next three months, I want to ship 500 units of what I'm selling. That's Perfect. How many of you sold so far this year? I've been active 4 months and I've sold 12. What have you been doing? Influencer marketing. Micro ones. I was like, okay, fine. What do you want to spend in the next 3 months? It's okay, in the next 3 months, I really want to spend 5, 000 and I want to cover all of that. And I just said simply to them, sorry, mate, not a chance on hell. So in realistic terms, you're looking at between 50 to a hundred pounds a day in spend, then you got to pay agency fees, shipping fees, this and that and the other. I said, you, what you really need to do is go down to the bare basics, get some user generated content done. I'll introduce it to some, to, to, some women I know, that are in that space because obviously I'm just to make sure that demographics honed in on it's 25 to 45 females. And he was happy with that. I did the introductions for him. They've already set up the meetings and we'll see where it goes, but I know what your question was. And the answer really is as simple as this, that don't expect the world, a small budget. If you're going to be a business owner, make sure you have some kind of budget to be actionable inside the market. 5, 000 pounds over three months to try and launch a luxury brand, I'd much rather that individual would reel that back in, add on double the amount of money to make it work for them. Because there's nothing worse than taking a small budget and blasting through it and therefore you're back to square one with no money.

Paul: 19:56

Think it's a hard decision for business owners because it's, a bit of a black box, let's be honest, marketing. There's so much, we, talk about marketing agency, but there are a million different types of marketing agency, let alone technologies and infrastructures and things. And from the outside, it all seems very simple, right? Like I'd get a website set up and somebody places some ads for my behalf and I'd pay them some money and then that goes out to people and people come and buy from me. And I think agencies themselves, a lot, there are. Some cheaper agencies out there, that, that are setting us up for failure in that regard as business owners, because they're offering, oh, it's the classic clickbait. I see this all the time with sales companies. I'll generate you 30 leads in 30 days, not a money back guaranteed. And that drives me wild

Alan: 20:45

I get so many. I get so many. of those a day. It's

Paul: 20:48

right.

Alan: 20:50

and it's bad in a sense because I know people need to earn money, but because one person has gone on and been semi successful, then you have another 20, 30, 40, 50, people in their early twenties. And I'm not knocking to try and start a business. I implore that. Fantastic. Well done. keep going, but don't come straight out of the university or from under a rock and start charging 50, 100, 200, 300 pounds in lead. When you're a week old, you've got to build yourself up. You've got to make sure that you have proof of concept of that. What, of what you're delivering, I'll give a quick example of that. I consult for a lot of companies as well at the moment, as well as doing TDF and in the background, someone said to me, right in the next six weeks, I want you to deliver 10 tangible leads for me, Alan. I said, okay. Fine, not a problem, challenge accepted. Anyone that knows me, I'm very competitive in regards to what I do. and by the end of six weeks, I think I ended up on 46 instead of 10. and my point is, and I'm not trying to big myself up by the way, my point is make sure that you can deliver and then some because it makes you look stronger in the market. If you are literally going out there from day one and ripping people off, you're going to blacklist yourself very, quickly. Learn your trade under someone, then if you want to go alone, after you credit your black book. Do that, but don't come out day one, all guns blazing, thinking that you're the bee's knees, when you still haven't learned to walk yet.

Paul: 22:19

It just makes a very hard environment for, marketing agencies that do deliver to have a serious conversation with people. And I've seen this loads, like even my, I work with a lot of marketers and up until recently, I had no idea how much SEO cost. and I've, even, I've gone to my partners and gone, if I had some disposable income from the business and I could put, I don't know, 300 a month away, that's got to get me some results, right? And I go, no way. No,

Alan: 22:46

Add a Zero you

Paul: 22:47

might as well just

Alan: 22:48

a zero.

Paul: 22:48

go into the pub and spend it. All right. All right. Okay. So what do I need to spend? add a zero.

Alan: 22:54

Exactly, this is what I used to do as an analogy years ago at Google, right? So I used to say to a company, go, how many people work there? It's 20. Okay, 20 people. Do you all drink coffee? Actually, yeah, we do. Where'd you go? Starbucks. Brilliant. So how much you spend between years in Starbucks a week? I don't know, probably like a grand. So you're telling me that you spend a grand a week in Starbucks, four grand a month, 48, 000 pounds a year, but you're not willing to spend the equivalent to target millions of people on Google. Do you see what's wrong with that? Give up coffee for a year, and I want to make sure that you make enough profit on the back of that 48 grand spent, that I pay to the coffee, and you get your money back, and you make some profit. So these are part of the analogies that I used to use, where's the value from this? where's the value from spending 20 a day on coffee? It's, where's the value from that? Oh, it keeps me going. if you want to keep your business going, then stick a bit of, stick a bit of bloody cash into it.

Paul: 23:54

I love that story. That is brilliant. That is a great analogy. I hope that helps bring it to life for some people. But I think, if you are talking to people and You're wanting to increase your digital presence, you're wanting to increase your digital market, and it's clear from the conversation today is like, one, have realistic expectations of what you're going to achieve with the budget that you've got, and two, make sure you get into bed with the right partner who's got your best intentions at heart, right?

Alan: 24:22

Exactly. 110%. And that's all I ever wish for anyone, is don't make any silly mistakes. And if you're questioning yourself, As I said, pick up the phone, drop me a message. Oh, Alan, what do you think of this agency? Oh, they're brilliant at this. They're poor at that. Okay, great. Actually, I wanted to use them for what they're poor at. Who do you recommend? I'll give them some options. And I'm yet to have an unsatisfied customer in that sense. I'm yet to have someone turn around and say, Alan, What was that intro? That guy's rubbish. I vet everyone that I work with. Hard. I even go to the point of saying, how many services do you have? 10 services. What are they? They list them off. Put them in order. They're like, what do you mean put them in order? What are you good at? What are you mediocre at? What are you absolute rubbish at? Because whatever you're rubbish at, I don't want to promote your service because there's no point in burning more people with that service. It's great if you want to sell it. I'm not going to push it my side.

Paul: 25:15

Yeah, that's it. I had this exact conversation with Barney Durant a few weeks ago. And Barney was like, people start out and they have a specialism. And as they grow, they add a couple more specialisms and that's fine. You can have three or four specialisms as an agency. But if you're talking to someone and they tell you, we're a one stop shop, we do everything. Then alarm bells should be ringing because they can't be everything. Because even just something like Google AdWords in itself doesn't work. is a huge industry and niche to be able to specialize in it in the first place. To add even just a couple of things beyond that is probably quite hard for a business who's good at it to do. think realistically, if, you were to specialize in your own industry in 10 things, would you really be a specialist or would you be more of a generalist? And I think that's what businesses need to get their head around a little bit when they're looking for that ideal partner. Alan, it's been fantastic chatting with you. I've really appreciated the candor and passion in your conversation. It's been refreshing to hear somebody who's not afraid to get the guns out and just give people both barrels because I think it's time the industry had that shake up. thanks very much for your time.

Alan: 26:23

No worries. It's a pleasure. And thanks again for the opportunity. just, as a closing note. Just do your due diligence, make sure that the people that you're hiring to do the job also have the time to do it. Because so many times you get, you're paying companies that are going to support you, but then you get left behind because they were spending their time on other clients as opposed to your own accounts or structure or strategies. Just make sure that you have the right people in the right place at the right time. And if you don't know, then obviously reach out to Paul. He can reach out to me on your behalf. More than happy to have a conversation, but thank you so much for having me today. Really appreciate it. And as a closing note. Have a great summer, everyone.

Paul: 27:00

Thanks very much, Alan. Really appreciate your time. And if you're watching the show, thank you for being a supporter of the show. Thank you for subscribing and following us. And if you know anybody who'd be a great guest on the Whether as a business owner or a marketing agency owner, we would love to chat with them and potentially get them on the show. The link to register for that will be in the show notes, or you can just drop me a message and we'll have a conversation. I'll see you next Wednesday. Bye. Bye